Please Help. Pennsylvania Registration, Insurance.

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Feb 11, 2021
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34
A motorized bike with a 49cc engine can easily push you 20 mph plus on the flats, you will of course have to help it up steep hills, that is what assist engines are all about, a real moped is much heaver that a motorized bicycle and a 49 cc,1.5 hp engine wouldn't help much at all, 2 strokes are much more powerful per pound of weight than the 4 strokes, 4 strokes put out their torque at low rpm as 2 strokes put out thier torque at high rpm, since horsepower is calculated by torque in foot pounds times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower, you can see that the 2 strokes have a pronounced power advantage over 4 strokes in spite of the mixing of gas and oil and less of a lifespan, even modern 2 strokes weigh much less than a modern 4 stroke with sintered camshafts and sintered crankshafts to lose weight, I can hold a 2 stroke in one hand that can make 5 hp or more, it would take serious hopped up 4 stroke with sintered parts to even close to a good 2 stroke. Some of these guys are running a lot more powerful engines than 50cc on their motorized bikes and are as powerful as a small motorcycle, I guess it is up to cops at that point, if you are being annoying with it or drawing a lot of attention, they will get you sooner or later, I would think most cops probably couldn't care less unless if you are being annoying with it anyway, they have a lot more important things to do than chase hopped up bicycles, Mike gensel
 


yuckfoo

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Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
92
Just spoke with Jen Michaels , a penndot supervisor, she said a bicycle cannot be registered no matter what kind of assist engine it has, mike gensel
No offense Michael, but it clearly states online that they are considered mopeds and that they must be registered. It's highly likely that no one at PENN DOT knows what they are talking about. I have ZERO confidence in anyone there actually knowing what they are talking about. Too many diversity hires, not enough people with the brain power to do their job the right way.
 

yuckfoo

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Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
92
A motorized bike with a 49cc engine can easily push you 20 mph plus on the flats, you will of course have to help it up steep hills, that is what assist engines are all about, a real moped is much heaver that a motorized bicycle and a 49 cc,1.5 hp engine wouldn't help much at all, 2 strokes are much more powerful per pound of weight than the 4 strokes, 4 strokes put out their torque at low rpm as 2 strokes put out thier torque at high rpm, since horsepower is calculated by torque in foot pounds times rpm divided by 5252 equals horsepower, you can see that the 2 strokes have a pronounced power advantage over 4 strokes in spite of the mixing of gas and oil and less of a lifespan, even modern 2 strokes weigh much less than a modern 4 stroke with sintered camshafts and sintered crankshafts to lose weight, I can hold a 2 stroke in one hand that can make 5 hp or more, it would take serious hopped up 4 stroke with sintered parts to even close to a good 2 stroke. Some of these guys are running a lot more powerful engines than 50cc on their motorized bikes and are as powerful as a small motorcycle, I guess it is up to cops at that point, if you are being annoying with it or drawing a lot of attention, they will get you sooner or later, I would think most cops probably couldn't care less unless if you are being annoying with it anyway, they have a lot more important things to do than chase hopped up bicycles, Mike gensel
Perhaps I'm wrong, but doesn't this sound like it refers to motorized and e-bikes?

MOPED DEFINITION: A motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals, a motor rated no more than 1.5 brake horsepower, a cylinder capacity not exceeding 50 cubic centimeters, an automatic transmission, and a maximum design speed of no more than 25 miles per hour, or an electric motor-driven cycle equipped with operable pedals and powered by an electric battery or battery pack powered electric motor with a max design speed of no more than 25 mph. CRITERIA: 1. Engine may not exceed 50 cubic centimeters. 2. Engine may not exceed 1.5 brake horsepower rating. 3. Operable pedals required. 4. Automatic transmission required. 5. Design speed may not be more than 25 miles per hour. 6. Does not require inspection. 7. Moped registration plate issued. 8. Fees: For a complete listing of motor vehicle fees, refer to Form MV-70S, “Bureau of Motor Vehicles Schedule of Fees,” found on our website

" I would think most cops probably couldn't care less unless if you are being annoying with it anyway, they have a lot more important things to do than chase hopped up bicycles, Mike gensel" I can point you to several YouTube videos that prove that in some cases they do not have better things to do. I know people who were stopped by cops and told they have to ride their motorized on the sidewalk! Just because someone is employed as a cop doesn't mean they know what they are talking about or aren't assholes. I want to be well armed against any dumbass cop that wants to tell me a bunch of bulls**t. If I have to pay a lawyer to provide me with all the legal ease that I can pull out of my pocket and cite then I'll do that. I simply will not put up with some cop that doesn't have anything better to do telling me a load of sh*t. I'll know my rights and I'll do everything so it's nice and legal. No offense but, I can't imagine you live in the USA if you are thinking that cops have better things to do. In good neighborhoods where there is next to zero crime, they literally do not have anything better to do and they will go out of their way to annoy people out of boredom if not arrogance.
 

yuckfoo

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Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
92
Hi, Mopeds can be registered in pennsylvania because the are not listed as a low speed vehicle and have a vin number, mopeds are a motor vehicle but bicycles are not, I spoke in emails with Jen Michaels yesterday, a supervisor from PennDot, she said bicycles cannot be registered no matter what kind of assist engine they have because they are listed as low speed vehicles, electric bicycles are legal in pennsylvania now as long as they meet the 750 watt, 20 mph limit, have automatic clutch/transmission and as listed as motor assisted bicycles, I am assuming now that gas or electric assisted bicycles are listed as assisted bicycles are are legal and without registration as long as they meet the same criteria, 750 watts/max speed of 20 mph, automatic clutch/transmission, mike gensel
A low speed vehicle must be registered. So a motorized cannot be a low speed vehicle if it can't be registered. It's very likely that the laws and regulations haven't caught up with motorized. The people we pay to represent us are too busy working 4 hours a day 3 days a week on bulls**t that no one needs. They can't be bothered with actual useful things.

"To legally drive your low-speed vehicle on the road, it needs to be registered. To register your LSV, you will need to bring the following:" Pennsylvania Golf Carts And LSV Laws - GolfCarts.org
 

Frogslayer

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Jan 20, 2019
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2,062
A low speed vehicle must be registered. So a motorized cannot be a low speed vehicle if it can't be registered. It's very likely that the laws and regulations haven't caught up with motorized. The people we pay to represent us are too busy working 4 hours a day 3 days a week on bulls**t that no one needs. They can't be bothered with actual useful things.

"To legally drive your low-speed vehicle on the road, it needs to be registered. To register your LSV, you will need to bring the following:" Pennsylvania Golf Carts And LSV Laws - GolfCarts.org
Honestly this is how the local police in my small town feel as well. If your not doing anything that endangers anyone else they'll leave you alone. If some stupid rich liberal from the cities (lots of vacation homes where i live) calls you in they'll just give you a warning.
 

yuckfoo

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Joined
Nov 21, 2020
Messages
92
Honestly this is how the local police in my small town feel as well. If your not doing anything that endangers anyone else they'll leave you alone. If some stupid rich liberal from the cities (lots of vacation homes where i live) calls you in they'll just give you a warning.
One of the reasons why I'm digging deeper is that I plan to occasionally travel about 20 miles through a dozen different towns and two counties. If I was only riding in my town I could drag a bonfire behind my bike and the cops wouldn't blink. They are too busy ignoring crime here to be concerned with anything that doesn't involve gunfire.
 
Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
34
You should look up low speed vehicles, golf carts, atv's and farm tractors and such, Pa laws have changed recently on those. Yuckfoo and frogslayer are right about the cops, if you are not causing trouble or endangering anyone they will most likely not bother you, there is always the chance you will catch the attention of a cowboy though and he will give you problems just cause he can. Had an email conversation with wilkes-barre police a few days back, he says a gas powered bicycle is considered a moped and must be registered as such but he also said electric or gas assisted bicycles/pedacycles are both considered mopeds and quotes pa title section 1302, he said that there are no exception for registration for pedacycles in that section, that is true, the flaw in that statement is that section of the Pa vehicle code is only for motor vehicles, Pa does not consider bicycles/pedacycles motor vehicles so an exception to registration for pedacycles would not be in it. Penndot vehicle dept supervision still maintains over and over that a bicycle cannot be registered because it has no vin number, electric or gas, assist engine or not, it has no street legal safety equipment and also classified as a low speed vehicle, actual mopeds have road legal safety equipment, full lighting systems and a vin number. Electric bikes laws are covered under federal law now and are listed in federal statues as not requiring registration as long as it meets the criteria, the federal statutes for e-bikes do not mention gas powered bicycles as far as I can see, pennsylvania laws are so confusing and contradict themselves over and over on this subject, mike
 

Wrench

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Joined
Feb 11, 2021
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Check out pennsylvania act 154, and title 75 of statues section 102, amendments to the previous laws listed above for motorized bikes, it says no registration required for electrics within power output and speed criteria listed and they are allowed on public roads if the meet the criteria, it does not mention gas powered though, electric assisted bikes are federally regulated, the federal description of a motorized bike is an off road vehicle, the feds say it is up to the states and counties as if they allow them on public roads, I do not know if electrics are still classified as mopeds or not, mike
 
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