Please Help. Pennsylvania Registration, Insurance.

Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
39
I have emailed penndot with dozens of letters for several months asking if a 49cc , 1 hp gas engine assisted bike that has a top speed of 20 mph requires registration, they still have not answered my question, all they will say is a bicycle cannot be registered no matter what kind of assist engine it has and that came from 2 supervisors, if you read the online regulations, they say it is still a moped, then you have idiot sites like EVO that sell electric bikes that says that pennsylvania defines an ebike in part with less that 50cc cylinder displacement, cylinder displacement only applies to gas engines, nowhere does pennsylvania regulations mention that in their ebike information, I have told EVO about it a few times already and they are so stupid and ignorant they refuse to remove the posting on their site, they are either complete morons or just making up things to sell bikes, mike gensel
 


Joined
Feb 11, 2021
Messages
39
I don't know about pusher trailers, if you ask penndot they will probably just give you the run-around like they give me for several months, a lot of the police don't even know that electric bikes are legal now, not considered mopeds and do not require registration if they meet penndots power and speed criteria criteria if that tells you how screwed up pennsylvania is, mike gensel
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
34
I have emailed penndot with dozens of letters for several months asking if a 49cc , 1 hp gas engine assisted bike that has a top speed of 20 mph requires registration, they still have not answered my question, all they will say is a bicycle cannot be registered no matter what kind of assist engine it has and that came from 2 supervisors, if you read the online regulations, they say it is still a moped, then you have idiot sites like EVO that sell electric bikes that says that pennsylvania defines an ebike in part with less that 50cc cylinder displacement, cylinder displacement only applies to gas engines, nowhere does pennsylvania regulations mention that in their ebike information, I have told EVO about it a few times already and they are so stupid and ignorant they refuse to remove the posting on their site, they are either complete morons or just making up things to sell bikes, mike gensel
Thanks Mike. Yeah, they're idiots, simply because there are ebike riders and builders west of the rockies that just slap 250W stickers on their 750W+ ebike motors and laugh at the cops as they whizz down streets, clearly going faster than the 20mph limit.
At this point, I'm building this as a primary transport/3-mode hybrid (Predator/Bafang/Pedal-power)

If this new battery pack I have coming from China is any indication, on 48V alone, I'm looking at close to 55 miles of range, with a top speed somewhere around 35mph...
 

DAMIEN1307

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
1,644
From what i have been reading here about Pennsylvanians trying to get answers from the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, i have come to a conclusion.

Penn. legislature has not definitively defined Motorized bicycle laws in your state...It appears that you folks have run up against, vague, unclear, and open to personal interpretations of what ever DMV clerk or supervisor or cop on patrol, or even a judge hearing only an individual case without all the combined facts from all of you put together, a law or group of laws that are not consistant and therefore make no logical sense...This "law" is a total chaotic mess and should be a prime target for a class action suit presented by an ambitious attorney looking to make a name for himself representing you Pennsylvanians in order to overturn whatever this mess is, that presently exists or doesnt exist on the books of State of Penn's motor vehicle statutes...To me, it doesnt even look enforceable since no one can give any coherent or consistant answers to any of your questions...Either it is or it isnt.

You M/B folks in Penn. need to PM each other here on the forums PM service, band together, find this bright, ambitious lawyer, give him a print out of all of you who have commented here in the forums now totalling 4 pages worth and bring about a class action court hearing on this.

Thats my 2 cents worth here...lol...DAMIEN
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
34
From what i have been reading here about Pennsylvanians trying to get answers from the Dept. of Motor Vehicles, i have come to a conclusion.

Penn. legislature has not definitively defined Motorized bicycle laws in your state...It appears that you folks have run up against, vague, unclear, and open to personal interpretations of what ever DMV clerk or supervisor or cop on patrol, or even a judge hearing only an individual case without all the combined facts from all of you put together, a law or group of laws that are not consistant and therefore make no logical sense...This "law" is a total chaotic mess and should be a prime target for a class action suit presented by an ambitious attorney looking to make a name for himself representing you Pennsylvanians in order to overturn whatever this mess is, that presently exists or doesnt exist on the books of State of Penn's motor vehicle statutes...To me, it doesnt even look enforceable since no one can give any coherent or consistant answers to any of your questions...Either it is or it isnt.

You M/B folks in Penn. need to PM each other here on the forums PM service, band together, find this bright, ambitious lawyer, give him a print out of all of you who have commented here in the forums now totalling 4 pages worth and bring about a class action court hearing on this.

Thats my 2 cents worth here...lol...DAMIEN
(Smells his worst fear of government over-reach coming true.)

While what you say is true, to a point, Damien, the problem with a class action suit is that the opposition lawyers will then take their cues from surrounding states (I surely don't want PA to become in lock-step with NJ's ebike and motorized bike legislation; I prefer Delaware, actually), so it is an area where we need to steer our young, hungry for notoriety lawyer in the right direction.
For us in PA, it's pretty easy to do just that, considering that PA and DE share many border crossings/state line crossings that are all land-based. You have to cross a bridge (or a ferry!) if you want to go to NJ (which lends itself to a whole other ball of wax, since the Ben Franklin Bridge is the only bridge with an 'open-to-pedestrians' walkway (The Tacony-Palmyra bridge is still closed due to construction, if memory serves)

So, yes, having PA adopt the laws/regulations of DE would solve a lot of our issues. Who wants to be the class action guinea pig?
 

DAMIEN1307

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
1,644
This is how my current State of residence, (NM) has its Motorized Bicycle laws classified as of now...If this can be of any help...it is spelled out quite clearly...lol...DAMIEN

Section E. Motorized Bicycles​

Revised November 30, 2017

Motorized Bicycles are not considered to be mopeds or motorcycles.

By current MVD practice, motorized bicycles are considered to be bicycles (not mopeds or motorcycles) and are not subject to the titling and registration requirements of the Motor Vehicle Code.
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
34
Well, that's a solid, logical answer. But, even in PA and NJ, both states agree that you can never register a bicycle simply because of one overriding factor: Bicycles aren't sold with titles. No title, no tags.
 

DAMIEN1307

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 23, 2020
Messages
1,644
Bicycles aren't sold with titles. No title, no tags.
Exactly the point that needs to be made in a court of law to overturn that messed up piece of garbage law or laws you presently have to contend with that no one can agree upon...lol...DAMIEN
 
Joined
May 10, 2021
Messages
34
Exactly the point that needs to be made in a court of law to overturn that messed up piece of garbage law or laws you presently have to contend with that no one can agree upon...lol...DAMIEN
That, on the surface, is true. BUT, and this is a very big but, where do you draw the line? When does a bicycle stop being a bicycle and crosses into moped, or worse, motorcycle territory?
No title means no tags, so it can never be registered, it'll always be a power-assisted bicycle, right? So, what about the outliers in our own community, who would think nothing of putting a Predator 212, with a Stage 2 kit, onto a bicycle? Cars and Cameras, a You Tube go-kart and mini-bike builder, have already shown that a built for speed 212 on a go-kart can go in excess of 60+ mph, now imagine that mill on a 1/3 the weight bicycle? And not to throw a wrench at the ebike crowd, but the higher end 7500W+ crowd are hitting at 70+mph speeds.

So, when does a bicycle become not a bicycle and more of a two-wheeled death trap? THIS is what the legislation needs to look at. The way I interpret the current set of rules on the books, any bicycle with a 49cc gas engine, or ebike with a 750W or smaller motor, is just that, a power-assisted bicycle.
Anything OVER those limits, and now you're into moped and light duty motorcycle territory. (I mean, could you imagine a bicycle that can keep up to cars, CARS(!), on the Interstates?
 
Top