Pollution from a HT Engine

How much pollution could be produced from two gallons of fuel ? Im not buying it . Anyone got any real numbers ?

Sutton, don't understand what ya on about now.
Originaly you posted that ya not buying the fact a HT produces "alarming" pollution, then Spooky Tooth gets a test done and passes, and unless I'm reading this wrong, if I am, apologies, if due, but ya seem to be saying that ya don't buy the Spooky Tooth test either ?

I posted from a "look at the big picture" angle to, "TOTAL view from raw materials to product death" angle.
My angle is the TOTAL concept of production where things that CAN last a lifetime and more, rather than what the Japs. started to do in the 70's, to make cars last 5 years with inherited rust problems etc, so we are forced to renew the car or products. This is where one of, if not THE root causes of pollution originates from.

So if a WHOLE global concept, IF ( and I doubt IF ever) industry changes and simply add common sense instead of perpetual profiteering in the way products are manufactured, then no matter what the 2 stroke, ya diesal and ya 4 stroke's emissions are, because IF only a car ( hypothetically) can be built to last longer, lets say, 20 years ? before it starts to rust, then that is 3 cars LESS to produce.
So 20 million people by 20 million cars on average every 20 years. Not 20 million people having to buy 80 million cars.
That's 60 million automobiles that did not really HAVE to see the light of day.
How many tons of raw product could have stayed in the ground and less pollution in our rivers ?

I'm no greeny and most of the greenies **** me off anyway, but from a practical common sense point of view I'm ****ed off because I have to buy the same tools as posted, again ! due to this ridiculous concept of not making them last a life time or "industry will go out of biziness" DOGSBOLOCKS!

The principles are wrong, in my laymans opinion.


Like I mentioned before, the DAWN brand name vice bought in 1963 has outlasted a NO-BRAND-NAME vice made 2003.
Fortunately I don't have to buy another vice, the point is, how many of these vices have broken by now, and have to be repurchased by others, unessescarily ?
So therefore,
The factory making the vices has to dig up more raw material and the cycle goes on again to manufacture another breakable vice so it don't last 3 or more generations.

THERE'S the root cause the greenies need to go dig, not mess with the consumer who has a dwindling choice and is forced to focus on minute dogsbollocks like exhaust emissions of a 2 stroke (therefore missing the obvious), where as we would not require a 2-stroke if cars were made to last longer in the first place therefore lesseining the damand on oil to re-manufacture the same.
It's another one of those, dare I say it, c..co..con..spi..ra..cy...thangs !

Unfortunately,the reality is no matter what I say, no matter what anyone educated with the enitre alphabet after their name says, it will not change for long while yet to come because we all want a piece of the $action$.
 
Sutton, don't understand what ya on about now.
Originaly you posted that ya not buying the fact a HT produces "alarming" pollution, then Spooky Tooth gets a test done and passes, and unless I'm reading this wrong, if I am, apologies, if due, but ya seem to be saying that ya don't buy the Spooky Tooth test either ?

Umm no- the point I was trying to make is that the Spooky test seemed to contradict that the 2 cycles are far more damaging to the enviroment than a vehicle. I would say that conclusion with certificate was bullet proof. While I hear that there are Hondas that are acting as air cleaners, I would say that that is not the norm. I know what you mean about quality but Im not trying to address that - just the raw exhaust numbers and the general belief that the two straokes are evil according to the greenies.

The big picture you are painting I agree with - what if things lasted longer and how much would THAT save ? A unreal amount of raw materials and fuel as you say.

David
 
....My WRX will pass a sniffer test running catless and will fail an OBDII test but it runs completely clean because its tuned perfectly. Most cars on the road run stupidly rich and will pick up gas mileage and performance if the ECU is reflashed with a solid tune. Keep in mind I mean a real tune, and not just a 'tune-up'......

It may pass a "sniffer" test, but you are not running "completely clean" without the catalyst. If anything, your reflashed ECU is polluting more than the original firmware, but it is giving you better performance because of more aggressive boost/timing curves and is probably more liberal about running a rich mixture during WOT operation than the stock programming. This is done to control detonation, but it also pollutes more. (as you know, lean mixtures and high boost are a recipe for disaster) I guarantee your WRX leaves a visible smoke trail (soot from the rich mixture) when you are WOT. Cars do not run "stupidly rich" with the stock firmware. The whole point of the ECU is to monitor all engine parameters and instantaneously adjust mixture for near perfect combustion in all operating conditions.

If you ride a motored bike to conserve fuel, you are on the right track. If you ride a motorized bike to pollute less, you can say that you produce less CO2 than a car, but you are releasing more of other pollutants in the air. Personally, I think the fuel savings of a motorized bike, scooter, or small motorcycle trumps the additional emissions. I think that motorcycle engines (and motored bike and scooters) that are less than 250cc should be exempt from emission standards. This will keep them simple and cheap. Last thing we need are fuel injected 50cc engines. The Honda Ruckus scooter has PGM-FI in some markets, and it ain't a cheap little scooter.
 
One test by a party with a financial stake in the test does not make the rule. The test just doesn't pass the simplest measures for validity.

2 strokes do pollute more than 4 strokes, it is a fact that is undisputed. I personally think the test was bogus since 20:1 oil ratio is pretty smokey. The EPA doesn't make this stuff up.

Twenty-five percent of the fuel and required oil that conventional two-strokes use most of it unburned is emitted directly into the air or water if used on a boat. According to the EPA, two-stroke engines discharge as much as 30 percent of their fuel and oil unburned directly into the air or water for powerboats.

The EPA estimates that one hour of operation by a 70-horsepower two-stroke motor emits the same amount of hydrocarbon pollution as driving 5,000 miles in a modern automobile
 
One test by a party with a financial stake in the test does not make the rule.

The EPA estimates that one hour of operation by a 70-horsepower two-stroke motor emits the same amount of hydrocarbon pollution as driving 5,000 miles in a modern automobile

Well if the EPA said that ........ wait, they are part of the GOVERNMENT. This is also the same GOVERNMENT that said - STOP, dont eat that tomato !!!!!!!

The Food and Drug Administration is expanding its warning to consumers nationwide that a salmonellosis outbreak has been linked to consumption of round tomatoes, and products containing these raw, red tomatoes.

Then Later in August -

The Food and Drug Administration declared on Thursday that it is again safe to eat all tomatoes now on sale in the U.S., canceling its warning in June that some tomatoes were the cause of a still-unsolved outbreak of salmonella poisoning..............................

restaurants and supermarkets pulled tomatoes from shelves and refrigerators; the halt in sales has cost an estimated $40 million in lost purchases.

So excuse me if I don't blindly accept the 5000 mile comparison just because the E.P.A. threw some numbers out there. I do accept that Spookytooth did actually test a HT engine and got the certificate.

arceeguy - that is a great way to look at things and sounds like a great deal of common sense as far as the big picture.

D
 
happytime evolution! ah its a wonderful thing! please china build it to last!
 
I wonder how the Mitsu TLE 43 "clean?" 2 stroke compares with the Honda GXH 50 4 stroke.All HT engines are probably absolutely awful.
 
I have read from a few different sources about the "carbon footprint" from a 2 cycle engine

As far as actual "Carbon Footprint" goes, I am under the impression that the amount of carbon released into the atmosphere is directly related to the amount of fuel/oil you are burning.

...so, getting 100mpg on your mb is better than getting 14mpg in your truck.
 
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