Question on frame drop out

[Rusty_S85]

I am not well versed on the 150mm OLD stuff, I was doing most of my new bike buying back in the days of 135mm OLD, and 26" rims and 1&1/8" head tubes so that's pretty much where my bike parts knowledge begins and ends. However I have a good reason for sticking to those standards. The best deals on used but working parts are in those now-unfashionable standards. There's a lot of cool kids "upgrading" to 29er, 1.5" head tubes and 11 speed cassettes (that require a 150mm or 142mm OLD) so there's tons of good, heavy, unfashionable stuff available, as long as you're not bothered by someone having ridden on it before you.
150mm will be more expensive and less choice available.

I would buy a hub and rim and take it to a local bike shop (LBS) to have them build it if you're not experienced in wheel building. I'd say it's for an e-bike though, not mention anything about ICE.

Well only reason I went with the 150mm over the 135mm is the site I bought the frame from made it sound like if you ever plan on going multi speed you have to have the 150mm. I originally planned on a single speed but then started thinking I probably would like a shift kit and a 7 spd rear cassette better than just a simple single speed.

Now I am in this position. I looked at bare hubs ones I found were a couple hundred. Too much for me to spend on just the hub alone in my book. Especially considering id have to pay a local bike shop to put the wheel together for me. Think I rather take my chances on the HD wheel that bicycle-engines sells if that is my only option.

I also am trying to find spoke wheels vs mag/alloy. So that cuts some wheels out as well.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

Well only reason I went with the 150mm over the 135mm is the site I bought the frame from made it sound like if you ever plan on going multi speed you have to have the 150mm. I originally planned on a single speed but then started thinking I probably would like a shift kit and a 7 spd rear cassette better than just a simple single speed.

Now I am in this position. I looked at bare hubs ones I found were a couple hundred. Too much for me to spend on just the hub alone in my book. Especially considering id have to pay a local bike shop to put the wheel together for me. Think I rather take my chances on the HD wheel that bicycle-engines sells if that is my only option.

I also am trying to find spoke wheels vs mag/alloy. So that cuts some wheels out as well.

Couple of hundred dollars for a hub?!
Hang on ill check the price of Halo Supa Drive DH 150.. oh it's 150x12mm, right?
£129, over this side of the pond.
Halo Dozen 150 is £80
But thats brand new, of course.
You don't have to have brand new wheels. Cartridge bearings are a piece of cake to replace and the whole freehub body is a replaceable part too.
If it's possible to swap the frame for a 135 I'd do that to get access to the more prevalent used parts standard, but that's just one person's opinion.

 

[Rusty_S85]

Couple of hundred dollars for a hub?!
Hang on ill check the price of Halo Supa Drive DH 150.. oh it's 150x12mm, right?
£129, over this side of the pond.
Halo Dozen 150 is £80
But thats brand new, of course.
You don't have to have brand new wheels. Cartridge bearings are a piece of cake to replace and the whole freehub body is a replaceable part too.
If it's possible to swap the frame for a 135 I'd do that to get access to the more prevalent used parts standard, but that's just one person's opinion.

I might be able to swap the frame just have to contact bicycle-engines. I might give it a try and see if they would drop ship a alternative. Cause I right now am just thinking to myself maybe just go simple and do a single speed and be done. I mean really don't need a multi speed build to do 30 mph. I just thought it would be fun to have something that you could shift and not have to worry about lugging the engine down too much with a taller gear to drop the engine rpm down in the speed range I would be using.



Well right now I am thinking, if I go with the 150mm HD wheel from where I bought the frame from, I am thinking right now how little I will actually use this it might not cause me much problems. Plus I am not abusive on my vehicles. Down side is it comes with a 6 speed multi free wheel. Well the Shimano Tourney MF-TZ31 7 speed I was looking at is also a multi free wheel. Now the question is what kind of adjustments might I have to make if I were to pull that 6 speed off and throw on a 7 speed?

I am just thinking on this. I had my eyes set on the thumb ratchet shifters I think they are called. I seen some videos online where people use them and you use your thumb to up shift and down shift via two different levers on one assembly. Thought that would work great for changing gears with my right hand while using the throttle. So I know those are 1:1 shifters and I read you have to use 1:1 derailleurs. Not sure if it matters what freewheels you are using. I assume long as you use the same speed as the derailleur and the shifter there should be no problem.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

I might be able to swap the frame just have to contact bicycle-engines. I might give it a try and see if they would drop ship a alternative. Cause I right now am just thinking to myself maybe just go simple and do a single speed and be done. I mean really don't need a multi speed build to do 30 mph. I just thought it would be fun to have something that you could shift and not have to worry about lugging the engine down too much with a taller gear to drop the engine rpm down in the speed range I would be using.

Well I don't want to be the one to blame if it would have been better to stick with 150. I would swap to the old standard personally and for the reason stated. I can get a used wheelset, used forks etc that will fit and that I know what names I'm looking for.
I think a shift kit will be an excellent upgrade, with appropriate heavy duty rear derailleur etc. I'd like to get one myself and it was originally a main part of my plans. I am just going to save it for "phase 2" because I want all sorts of weird special options (more $$$).

Don't forget your tophat adapter for a parallel chain line. I know Frankenstein said bolt directly to the rotor mount but I don't understand how that works. The rotor mount on my 135 hubs is 17.5mm further outboard (left of centre line) than the engine output sprocket.

 

[Rusty_S85]

Well I don't want to be the one to blame if it would have been better to stick with 150. I would swap to the old standard personally and for the reason stated. I can get a used wheelset, used forks etc that will fit and that I know what names I'm looking for.
I think a shift kit will be an excellent upgrade, with appropriate heavy duty rear derailleur etc. I'd like to get one myself and it was originally a main part of my plans. I am just going to save it for "phase 2" because I want all sorts of weird special options (more $$$).

Don't forget your tophat adapter for a parallel chain line. I know Frankenstein said bolt directly to the rotor mount but I don't understand how that works. The rotor mount on my 135 hubs is 17.5mm further outboard (left of centre line) than the engine output sprocket.
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Well I have been thinking since my post. I think I will stick with this and make this work. This bike once built is a fun toy to play around with for me. Only reason why I am building it is cause a local shop here recently sold a board track racer style Indian motor bicycle built on this frame for $2,500. I liked the retro look but not the price tag. So with me being mechanically inclined I decided I will build my own my way from the ground up. I want to go more for a cruiser look over a racer look. If this one comes out good I might build a second as a racer using a predator 4 stroke engine. But with that in mind this will probably get rode a lot after I finish it but then it would be a fun toy to play with on nice days once in a while. I am thinking maybe those freewheel style HD wheels from where I bought my frame from wont give me trouble. Its not like I will be abusive on this bike I might drive it hard from time to time but mostly just cruising.

Now with that all said thing I don't like is the wheel comes with a 6 speed multi freewheel. Doesn't say what tooth the different cogs are so I don't know if that's something id want to keep. Plus I am looking at those cool 1:1 actuation thumb lever shifters I saw some on youtube on these bikes few weeks back. You press down with thumb on one lever to up shift, press the other lever to down shift. Well I don't think they make a 1:1 derailleur for a 6 spd. I never looked but 6spd seems to be an odd ball setup. I do have a SRAM X3 Long Cage rear derailleur on my wish list I created its a 7/8 speed 1:1 actuation. Just cant find that shifter how ever I seen.

I also was leaning towards the Shimano Tourney MF-TZ31 7 speed cassette as I like the 34T high gear. Its why I settled on going with the 24T optional cassette drive sprocket for the shift kit. That 24T drive sprocket will make this bike operate like I have a 106T rear cog in 1st gear and a 43T rear cog in 7th gear. Only thing I am weary about is the gap between 6th and 7th gear. Not sure how the chain will like that. It goes from 24T to 34T.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

Well I have been thinking since my post. I think I will stick with this and make this work. This bike once built is a fun toy to play around with for me. Only reason why I am building it is cause a local shop here recently sold a board track racer style Indian motor bicycle built on this frame for $2,500. I liked the retro look but not the price tag. So with me being mechanically inclined I decided I will build my own my way from the ground up. I want to go more for a cruiser look over a racer look. If this one comes out good I might build a second as a racer using a predator 4 stroke engine. But with that in mind this will probably get rode a lot after I finish it but then it would be a fun toy to play with on nice days once in a while. I am thinking maybe those freewheel style HD wheels from where I bought my frame from wont give me trouble. Its not like I will be abusive on this bike I might drive it hard from time to time but mostly just cruising.

Now with that all said thing I don't like is the wheel comes with a 6 speed multi freewheel. Doesn't say what tooth the different cogs are so I don't know if that's something id want to keep. Plus I am looking at those cool 1:1 actuation thumb lever shifters I saw some on youtube on these bikes few weeks back. You press down with thumb on one lever to up shift, press the other lever to down shift. Well I don't think they make a 1:1 derailleur for a 6 spd. I never looked but 6spd seems to be an odd ball setup. I do have a SRAM X3 Long Cage rear derailleur on my wish list I created its a 7/8 speed 1:1 actuation. Just cant find that shifter how ever I seen.

I also was leaning towards the Shimano Tourney MF-TZ31 7 speed cassette as I like the 34T high gear. Its why I settled on going with the 24T optional cassette drive sprocket for the shift kit. That 24T drive sprocket will make this bike operate like I have a 106T rear cog in 1st gear and a 43T rear cog in 7th gear. Only thing I am weary about is the gap between 6th and 7th gear. Not sure how the chain will like that. It goes from 24T to 34T.

For goodness sake don't get a freewheel hub if you might be getting a shift kit at a later date. Those things weren't up to the job of handling pedal power!

7 speed, nothing decent exists in 7 speed anymore, IMO.
8 speed is heavy but still usable. Tourney, no no no no no that's the bottom of the range! Tourney stuff will put you off derailleur gears entirely, make you wish you had IGH. Look for decent used Shadow + (Plus) it's a so-called clutched derailleur. It's a ten speed derailleur but they changed the actuation ratio when they went to 10 speed. I'm working on a "Sramano" eight speed system with Shadow+ and an old ESP twist shifter. Gotta get the gear system right while it's single speed on the engine side before I can save up to get the shift kit but I trust my aptitude and I'm sure I can get it to work.

 

[Rusty_S85]

For goodness sake don't get a freewheel hub if you might be getting a shift kit at a later date. Those things weren't up to the job of handling pedal power!

7 speed, nothing decent exists in 7 speed anymore, IMO.
8 speed is heavy but still usable. Tourney, no no no no no that's the bottom of the range! Tourney stuff will put you off derailleur gears entirely, make you wish you had IGH. Look for decent used Shadow + (Plus) it's a so-called clutched derailleur. It's a ten speed derailleur but they changed the actuation ratio when they went to 10 speed. I'm working on a "Sramano" eight speed system with Shadow+ and an old ESP twist shifter. Gotta get the gear system right while it's single speed on the engine side before I can save up to get the shift kit but I trust my aptitude and I'm sure I can get it to work.

thanks for the reply. But my big problem is I am running out of options. I cant justify spending $400 - $500 for a new freehub to build my own in this size, sure I could probably find used but I work in the automotive field, I hate using used parts if new parts are available. Same way with this since this is a all new build from scratch I prefer using new parts not some persons second hand parts.



What about this one?
http://www.huskybicycles.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=hb&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=505-148

It says its 140mm spacing which I assume they mean 150mm. Only draw back is I don't like the quick release option and it doesn't appear to be set up off the bat for disc brakes.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

Well it's not for me to argue against personal taste.
I will argue for 4-5 bearing freehubs being a better system all round, that it's the only sensible system if you're going to add the shift kit, and new wheels that fit shouldn't cost $400+.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cribsheet-spacing.html
140mm is old/ road tandem size.
145mm is newer tandem size.
148mm is "boost" mountain bike size, but usually a bolt through axle, not a threaded axle for dropouts.
150mmx12mm is downhill mountain bike size.
135mm is plentiful, and there are good m10 threaded axle versions if you don't want QR.

I don't think there's anything wrong with QR. You can use allen key skewers (with some reused steel threaded nuts off your old QR skewers) that are more convenient, and if you have slotted dropouts chain tensioners will still fit, so the axle isn't going anywhere.

 

[Rusty_S85]

This frame has horizontal sloted dropout as well as horizontal sloted disc brake caliper mounts. Why I got this one over that knock off version as it didn't have the welded in tab.

I also agree new wheels shouldn't cost $400+. But every time I do a search for 150mm hub, like if I were to just buy the hub and then have a local bike shop assemble it. Majority of what I find is $200 - $250 road bike style. I don't need hubs that expensive I also don't need wheels that have all these fancy graphics on it. Preferably I would want a chrome or a painted red rim with silver spokes.

As far as quick release goes, I don't mind them, its just I don't know how they would look on a retro style motor bicycle build like I have envisioned.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

This frame has horizontal sloted dropout as well as horizontal sloted disc brake caliper mounts. Why I got this one over that knock off version as it didn't have the welded in tab.

I also agree new wheels shouldn't cost $400+. But every time I do a search for 150mm hub, like if I were to just buy the hub and then have a local bike shop assemble it. Majority of what I find is $200 - $250 road bike style. I don't need hubs that expensive I also don't need wheels that have all these fancy graphics on it. Preferably I would want a chrome or a painted red rim with silver spokes.

As far as quick release goes, I don't mind them, its just I don't know how they would look on a retro style motor bicycle build like I have envisioned.

That's why I'm surprised you picked the 150mm frame, tbh. I wish someone else would chime in with suggestions for a lower price brand new complete wheel that isn't going to worse than waste the benefits of the extra 15mm of axle length. I have to stress that I haven't built a shifting rhs drive bike yet and I'll never try the freewheel hub! It still makes sense to me, to get a freehub in a wheel of a no-longer fashionable size (26"x135mm), and get a nice used wheel for well under $100 with a hub that costs $100 on its own.
And then stick an Allen key skewer in the QR because technically you should anyway, and it won't be obvious that it isn't a threaded axle.

I feel like I'm brow beating you to agree with my opinions.