Registering a trike

[lagfish]

Hi,
I want to build a custom motorized tilting trike for commuting without pedals for a project and be able to register it so that it is road legal. Does anyone have any experience for this? I would use an electric motor and keep it under 30mph so I should be able to register it as a scooter and use it without a motorcycle license? I've read over the laws for a few states and it seems all I would need are:

• Strong headlights, brake lights, turn signals, one mirror
• Seat height higher than 26"
• A strong enough frame and wheels
• Split or independently actuated brake system that can pass a stopping distance test
• Front suspension
• DOT approved tires
• Standard controls for kill switch, turn signals, etc.

Is there anything I'm missing? I want to make something very light, under 100 pounds, so I am thinking about using some bicycle components like wheels and brakes. I think I can use 16" DOT tires on 20" bike wheels.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Frankenstein]

Wait wait wait... Why do you want to omit the pedals? If you leave them on so they can engage a wheel (any wheel, front or back will both technically be legal) then you are protected by federal legislation that prevents you from needing any kind of registration at all.

I'm not totally sure but a scooter might not be aloud to have 3 wheels, nothing in my state says it can have 3 unlike motorcycle definitions, you're state might be different.

As far as actual registration goes... Well for that you need a title, for a title you will probably have to seek out somebody who can inspect electric scooters and all that, it's hard enough finding someone who can get a custom gasoline moped/motorcycle inspected and cleared for a state generated Vin and title let alone electric...

In all honesty if I were you I'd simply opt for a linkage that let's you pedal if you want, then you could breeze by wholly content that you are fully legal, the only downside is to remain legal you need to stay under 500w with the motor size and cannot travel faster than 20mph.. I'm sure you already knew that but still.

If you have all of the above that you listed then it shouldn't be a problem getting a ticket to the legal world, you'll probably need to install dot approved reflectors and running lights as most vehicles require those, especially cycle type vehicles.

The biggest problem you might run into is a shmaulty mechanic who wouldn't think your bicycle frame is strong enough to be a road legal frame, that is of course if you tell him the frame came from a bicycle instead of saying it was custom manufactured for your trike design

 

[lagfish]

The reason I want to register it is I do want to legally go faster than 20mph and more than 500w.

Any idea where to find guidelines on how to determine if a frame is road worthy?

 

[Frankenstein]

The reason I want to register it is I do want to legally go faster than 20mph and more than 500w.

Any idea where to find guidelines on how to determine if a frame is road worthy?

Sure, what companies do is they manufacture frames that they are certain are good enough to carry the gross weight, if nothing bad happens that's good, and when too many bad things happen the same way they recall all the vehicles and do it differently next year.

We have a large variety of examples on this site that show rather specifically what bike frames do work well and outlast their engines manyfold, then we have the rest that show which frames are bad ideas. Mind you that's with gas powered vibrato-tear-to-smitherineo type stuff mostly, so if it can handle gas it can handle electric as well.

No matter what you do you can't argue with a smoker, by that I mean if the mechanic wants to be a dick then he'll be a dick. The only reasonable way to determine the frame is worthy is to do stress testing on it, since that's unreasonable for a mechanic to do the state generally gives them the final word on how worthy something is. If he don't like bikes then he can shove it off and you can't argue with it, just hope you find a better mechanic to approve it after paying more money to have it rechecked since you can't appeal against the inspector's mark if you thought he was wrong.

Most likely not going to be a problem but from what I hear it's the frame (or maybe lack of) that generally gets pointed out when it comes to passing custom jobs of any sort, from mopeds to motorcycles to hot rods classified as a salvage rebuild, if the mechanic doubts the frame will hold up then its probably better he doesn't allow it on the road, unless he's just being an ass of course.

Just remember that it's very difficult to unhear something, so if you say bicycle frame then thoughts immediately jump to "bicycles are clearly not dot approved vehicles and their components are too unlikely to meet them and without doing tests it's impossible to tell etc etc etc.." so they feel safer just avoiding a problem and leave it at no. If you don't say it was a bicycle and don't say they are electric bicycle motors then you can avoid the strange overreaction that could disqualify you unfairly.

 

[lagfish]

My goal is to make a vehicle as light as possible. Certifying the frame should be OK because I can use a larger diameter thin wall tubing to make it lighter and still appear like what the mechanic's used to. Can you make a vehicle road legal using bike brakes and wheels, spokes, and hubs? I see that being more difficult because the mechanic will instantly recognize those parts as "bike parts". Anyone have any experience with this?

 

[Herman Klutz]

You are trying to build a trike version of a motorcycle, not a motorized bicycle. For DOT tires the easiest sources will be motorcycle tires. For your planned idea, I would start with a motorcycle and add a trike conversion kit. I also think it would be a lot safer.

 

[Frankenstein]

You are trying to build a trike version of a motorcycle, not a motorized bicycle. For DOT tires the easiest sources will be motorcycle tires. For your planned idea, I would start with a motorcycle and add a trike conversion kit. I also think it would be a lot safer.

It may be better in fact to start with a motorcycle frame, they are many times more resilient and many smaller lightweight versions are available, not to mention if the engine is small enough (or just in the wheels) you gain some excellent space that can be used to hold bulky batteries or just spare storage space.

My goal is to make a vehicle as light as possible. Certifying the frame should be OK because I can use a larger diameter thin wall tubing to make it lighter and still appear like what the mechanic's used to. Can you make a vehicle road legal using bike brakes and wheels, spokes, and hubs? I see that being more difficult because the mechanic will instantly recognize those parts as "bike parts". Anyone have any experience with this?

It's hard to say, I would assume spokes and hubs aren't a problem if they can handle the job, brakes such as rim brakes may get some dirty looks, disks would be better but are still subject to looking like bike parts (maybe not somewhat more exotic hydros, which is what a mechanic normally sees anyway) though I would assume he'd be more interested in it's brake power than anything since that's what actually matters.

Actual bicycle components to a certain degree scream out as being non-dot approved on just about anything except something that's supposed to be a "moped" since generally everything imaginable is going to sit higher on the vehicle food chain than a moped will....

 

[lagfish]

I already have a design in mind so it won't work using an existing frame. In terms of weight, it will be closer to a bicycle than a motorcycle, which is why I'm asking around here because I figured some of you have had experience with successfully registering a lightweight vehicle with an engine.

I do plan on using hydraulic brakes, but bicycle hydraulic brakes look very different from those on even small scooters. The brake fluid reservoir is small and the hydraulic lines are much wimpier looking. I know bike components are sufficient though because you don't need a 200 lbs - 300 lbs vehicle and heavy motorcycle/scooter parts to safely and comfortably cruise at 30mph, as all of you know! I just don't know if the state will see it the same way.

 

[Frankenstein]

I already have a design in mind so it won't work using an existing frame. In terms of weight, it will be closer to a bicycle than a motorcycle, which is why I'm asking around here because I figured some of you have had experience with successfully registering a lightweight vehicle with an engine.

I do plan on using hydraulic brakes, but bicycle hydraulic brakes look very different from those on even small scooters. The brake fluid reservoir is small and the hydraulic lines are much wimpier looking. I know bike components are sufficient though because you don't need a 200 lbs - 300 lbs vehicle and heavy motorcycle/scooter parts to safely and comfortably cruise at 30mph, as all of you know! I just don't know if the state will see it the same way.

I would just go for it, electric vehicles are all the rage anyway.. If you make it impressive looking enough you could always tell the mechanic it's going to be a movie prop but it needs to be considered street legal before the insurance will clear it for a movie prop (aka: just bulls**t a little in a convincing way.) If it's up to specifications it will likely be passed and given the almighty registration plate.

Confidence is often half the battle..

 

[TomyJ]

LagFish, What state are you in? Ca. says electric and with no pedals. This is my aluminum frame 350 watt 36 volt trike, 25 MPH for about 20 miles, great for local around town.