Risky's 2008 Ambassador II Whizzer Rebuild

[Wrench]

Interesting. Well, if Whizzer USA in 2005 (Ask Wrench) made the same error as me not punching the hole, I don't feel so bad. But if that bogus "Factory" gasket is still being sold without it being modified for almost 20 years, why has this problem not been popularized more? Just wondering......

WC-1 cyl base gasket had no breather hole in it.
It wasn't an error, it was by design The WC-1 cyl had no breather hole in the bottom of the cylinder leading to the valve cavity

WC-1 relied on the LH side vent to vent crankcase pressure,
LH side vent chamber is an air oil separator sending blowby gasses to the intake (which didn't work very well)
Whizzer was trying to be EPA compliant and reburn blowby gasses in the combustion chamber

Whizzer realized the poor performance of the LH side vent so their next model the NE-5 cyl used a bigger vent port in the valve cover
which required a breather hole in the bottom of the cylinder,
This vent system vented blowby gasses (crankcase pressure) into the atmosphere

 

[Wrench]

Interesting. Well, if Whizzer USA in 2005 (Ask Wrench) made the same error as me not punching the hole, I don't feel so bad. But if that bogus "Factory" gasket is still being sold without it being modified for almost 20 years, why has this problem not been popularized more? Just wondering......

Ask Wrench

YEP in 2005 when my NE-5 bike was new and still under warranty the valve lifters went bad so I sent my engine back to Whizzer so they could put in new valve lifters
After I got the engine back it would die within 5 -8 miles, This had me confused and I was wondering what Whizzer had done to my engine, It was weird because when the engine cooled down it would start again, but symptoms repeated

I started inspecting everything and discovered no oil in the valve cavity, It was dry as a bone
Whizzer had used a WC-1 cyl base gasket that had no breather hole in it, No oil was getting into the valve cavity
This meant the valve guides weren't getting lubricated and the exhaust valve stem soft seized in the valve guide causing the engine to die, Also the crankcase wasn't venting so that would cause oil leaks soon

I called Whizzer and told them what they had done, Whizzer offered to fix it, If I send them my engine again Free of charge of course
I fixed it myself, I just poked a big hole in the gasket thru the cyl breather hole,
Whizzer apologized and gave me discounts of future parts

 

[Risk Man]

Update on Oil breather and containment issue:

On my most recent attempt to re-make the CAOS, I opened the valve cover and at least 3 ounces of oil came gushing out of there! WTH??? Checked in with #wrench and of course his suggestion was spot on because if it might go wrong it HAS gone wrong for him on his 20 year journey with his NE5. So he has seen it all or at least most of it.

When I put the rebuilt cylinder back on the case after getting it back from Quenton, I had two new gaskets I got from Parts Guy Wayne in northern California. "Factory Stock"...Well, guess what? (Whizzer has been selling this flawed gasket since 2005) I failed to realize there was NOT a hole punched in the gasket for the drain passage between the valve box and the case. So he suggested I confirm the hole. Hard to do with the engine on the bike and together. But I pulled out the second of the two gaskets I bought and low and behold, NO hole!! Of course I did not compare the old gasket as it was torn off 6 months ago when I dismantled the engine. Sure, I knew there was a passage, but in my haste to re-assemble did not pay attention to it. Was able poke the hole from top and through side case area. I also used a clear hose this time on the CAOS. Couple of baby rides then 7 miles and no oil anywhere and just light mist in the CAOS tube....

35 Mile Update:

Finally actually breaking in the engine on the Eagle. Smoothing out and learning the ropes of the bike. Oil leaks are gone as is the extreme crankcase pressure caused by the gasket with no drain hole.

Just over 35 miles now since the oil fix and the bike is running very good. Smooth and gaining power. Running it around 3K rpm ad 20-30 MPH. Two 10 mile rides today and dialing in the idle. Very smooth in the mid power band. took it up to 4K and 33mph for a few seconds.

The CVT is interesting. Initial grab is toward 3K rpm then can bring it down and it starts to take off. Pretty slow to 25 but acceptable... unless you are driving behind me! Once you get up to 30 mph, at about 3K rpm, you can back it off and it still accelerates slightly but easily maintains speed. letting off the throttle does not slow the bike down much.. you really need to brake to get the rpms back under control.

Running closer to Lean-rich now after the oil debacle and the extreme lean running due to heat for sure. Temps are very acceptable now particularly with my cooling fan running. Front cylinder and head temps are around 210. After shut down exhaust port and head near port are around 310-316 compared to over 350 when I had the crankcase problem.

Weill check in later next week. Hope to get another 50-100 miles on next week when I will park it and begin working on the 1956 Harley as the fully rebuilt engine will arrive on January 3d!

 

[Risk Man]

FINISHED! I can officially say that the Eagle is complete.

Got the carb back from Quenton on Friday... 6 weeks. Not sure if I will put it on the Eagle or try it out on the now idle Gator.

Hitting 125 miles on the break-in and ready for the second oil change. Engine has really smoothed out particularly the consistent idle.

I fabricated the CVT cover to replace the Ugly plastic ginormous cover that I spent a week early on rebuilding and painting. Paint job failed and glad it did as It went in a box and will never come out now! Found a picture of a "skeletal" guard and reproduced it the past few days. Was a challenge to get the mounting bracket holes to match the CVT mounting area which took a good part of the day. Very happy with how it turned out. Used the auto trim around the edge to protect from the sharp metal and give it a bit of pizzaz!

We know the disc breaks on the Ambassador and NEr were great... but not mine. Was worried about stopping every time I rode. Today I received replacement brake shoes from Taiwan Joe and replaced them. Wow!! They grip like crazy. My old shoes were so glazed over they were done. Going to do a little more tweeking next week to prepare for the monthly Car Show at Mercado open air mall that takes place every month. 12 mile ride in but the Eagle is ready for long rides. Have done 15 already in the break-in

Was a great project and I believe I will hang on to it for a while and play around with a few things on it over the next 6 months when I am not busy working on the Harley!! Thanks for all the help and ideas along the way. It was a fun 11 months.

 

[DAMIEN1307]

It was a fun 11 months.

It's hard for me to believe it has been that long already, to me it seems you just got it...lol...lol.

 

[Risk Man]

This photo is dated February 3d 2024.

Started disassembling it a few days later.. there were quite a few pauses over the course of. It. Glad i took my time… especially on the paint job.

 

[Risk Man]

So just for fun, I mounted the "new" set up carb from you know who, and guess what? Will only run with choke on.... was running prefect with my NE5 carb. This one (it came back with both screws fully close so I set up with standard idle set a 1/2 turn and mixture screw at 1.5 out....

Tried many adjustments but will only run with choke on... checked bowl and it has plenty of gas....

He said it was "Way too lean" in it's stock conditon. .......

 

[Chainlube]

So just for fun, I mounted the "new" set up carb from you know who, and guess what? Will only run with choke on.... was running prefect with my NE5 carb. This one (it came back with both screws fully close so I set up with standard idle set a 1/2 turn and mixture screw at 1.5 out....

Tried many adjustments but will only run with choke on... checked bowl and it has plenty of gas....

View attachment 224314

He said it was "Way too lean" in it's stock conditon. .......

You have to raise the float a bit, so there is more fuel in the jet. What is the measurement of the float now? Also compare both sides, one can mess up the other.

 

[Wrench]

So just for fun, I mounted the "new" set up carb from you know who, and guess what? Will only run with choke on.... was running prefect with my NE5 carb. This one (it came back with both screws fully close so I set up with standard idle set a 1/2 turn and mixture screw at 1.5 out....

Tried many adjustments but will only run with choke on... checked bowl and it has plenty of gas....

View attachment 224314

He said it was "Way too lean" in it's stock conditon. .......

Q said the carb runs better with the Idle screw and the F/A screw turned all the way in?

Isn't that carb identical to your NE-5 carb?
If so make sure they both have the same size jets needle clip position and float height

 

[Risk Man]

Q said the carb runs better with the Idle screw and the F/A screw turned all the way in?

Isn't that carb identical to your NE-5 carb?
If so make sure they both have the same size jets needle clip position and float height

Not sure why he sent it back with both screws wrong. When I replied to my text last night he said "Check main and Pilot jets for debris" I said it was right out of the box he sent and he said "I understand, but if any dirt was lodged in the passages it could have been knocked loose in shipping. I thought the carburetor worked well. no matter you can ship it back again if you want....Sure interested in what is causing the problem" Note that on the carb was the tape notes " 68 031 I assume that is the jets he put in?

And yes, same as NE5 carb only newer and cheaper material it is made from. I don't know what jets are in either as my Gator carb has not numbers on jets and I don't have micro drills to measure them.