Mountainman
Active Member
Good morning to all of my fellow MBers
glad to see that you all have cleanned this thread up a little --
I was waken early this morning due to a safety problem here on site
told that someone had been accused of riding while
have their head far up their very own tail pipe !!!
we are very glad that this important (safety issue) has been taken care of
because while one is in that condition it makes it very hard to
RIDE THAT THING ----------- MM
glad to see that you all have cleanned this thread up a little --
I was waken early this morning due to a safety problem here on site
told that someone had been accused of riding while
have their head far up their very own tail pipe !!!
we are very glad that this important (safety issue) has been taken care of
because while one is in that condition it makes it very hard to
RIDE THAT THING ----------- MM
I
Irish John
Guest
I'm afraid you are plain wrong Pablo. Most manufacturing countries adhere to SI (International Standards) and these standards ensure that a part like, for example, a chain tensioner is fit for the purposes for which it is designed. Then there are national standards like Australian & New Zealand Standards and British Standards which also cover practically everything that is being made . These standards have developed over the last 100 years to cover almost everything and many British Standards and German Standards are adopted verbatim for inclusion in SI. I am sure the US Standards are equally voluminous. The International Standards cover practically everything in these kits but China does not adhere to SI in any shape or form.
So Pablo, the location of the factory has a very relevant impact on the quality of the component. There is no real comeback if you are dudded by a Chinese supplier whereas there are proper complaint mechanisms in place in all of the EC countries if you receive a shonky product - especially if it can be shown to be dangerously deficient in some way. This chain tensioner is a death trap and it could buckle which, on a HT motor, would suck the chain into the drive sprocket chamber and lock the rear wheel. When this happens at speed you are over the top or off the side in a second. Pulling the clutch in would make no difference because the chain and rear wheel are locked.
There are other countries that could build these kits to a much higher standard for the same price. It is the components I'm talking about more than the motors. The HS is a good motor but the HT is pretty much rubbish.
I've had a couple of reasonable HTs and a lot more really useless ones.
So you know everything about China from some cheaparze bike motor kit?
Excuse me but I lived and travelled China for 5 hard years of my life, away from my family. To make such an ignorant blanket statement tells me you don't exactly know what you are talking about. We could easily get a properly manufactured chain tensioner in China if required.
There is no standard for such a chain tensioner. There should be proper structural engineering to control form, fit, function, material....and there should be sufficient control at the build factory....I have no idea where the breakdown occurred. This could happen in any country.
You are correct, by geographic vicinity and by common language such shoddy components would be slapped down much quicker in more "western" rules nations, but then again the factories that are succeeding got mucho knowledge from certain westerners...........
I
Irish John
Guest
Fetor,
I got my kit from MBB Imports in Sydney. I only got the kit without the motor cos I'm using Hondas now. The 3 piece crank is in a rubbish pile with three previous 3 piece cranks. I can't use that crank cos no customer would accept it. The cranks are too short to pedal the bike properly and the spindle is longer than it needs to be. Then there's the $60 adaptor that's needed to get the Euro BB spindle to fit a schwinn BB.
Then I snapped the gear engager cable holder - the one at the end of the cable that connects it ti the lever coming out of the GB, That was 50% my fault and 50% poor material in the double threaded screw (see pic).
The tank needed to be repainted and all the Chinese bolts needed to be thrown out as per standard proceedure.
The 56T sprocket wheel goes into my large 56T sprocket pile cos nobody want them especially on a Honda rig cos they need a 48T which I buy separately from Warren at ZBox.
The sprocket wheels aren't quite round but that's normal.
The chain goes in the trash can as they all do.
The fuel stop cock gets thrown into the veggie patch to provide minerals.
The fuel line never gets used.
Yes, I'm reasonably happy because the kit is the same as what Bicycle Engines.Com now supply.
The supplier has written to Don Grube to send over some of the cable thingys so I can have a replacement and a few more spares.
For $295 it's NOT cheap given that I can't use most of it.
The Grubee GB is the Mark2 type (not the latest 7 bolt one) and it is good.
The freewheel sprockets need to be taken off and the ball race flange loctited cos they don't do that in the factory (in the cycling industry it is standard for freewheels like these to be loctited at point of production - they are not a unique design).
To build a bike that I can sell without it coming back at me and exploding in my face I now have to do a great deal of work to try and supply a reliable bulletproof means of transport. Most of this work is in my opinion making good the seriously defective components that are supplied to me so in that regard I am not happy. It puts up the price to about double what it should be but my customers appreciate the end result.
I get sick of suppliers telling me that the kits are good when I am the guy at the sharp end selling a finished product that people can quickly see the faults on. If I built a kit as per the instructions using only the supplied parts it would cost $820 for the bike, $500 for the engine, $300 for the kit, $30 for the speedo, $300 for the lights, - that is $1950 excluding any labour and within a week the buyer would be berating me down the phone. I'd be fixing the bike gratis every week or two for the rest of time. Why would I use all those shonky parts on a bike that is otherwise really good quality. It's like putting a front end loader on a Porsche.
I'm left with either really low profit margins or very angry customers and a bad reputation. If the components were better it would help a lot and if there were options like Bicycle Engines.Com used to offer with the lovely old ashtabula cranks it would make my job much easier and there'd be some profit.
Fetor, it is unbelievable what I have to spend to make a bike like my Billinudgel Bullet. A lot of this expense is because the original kit is just too terrible to use. Guys like you help me to find ways around the problems and the chain tensioner ideas from the US are just great.
It's very easy to sell the kit to someone. Selling the finished product is much harder because I'm at the sharp end. I want quality and I don't care about the price. Hope this answers your question but I'd need to PM you to tell you about my opinion of the supplier. I do like Warren because he tries his hardest to do right by me. I wish he had the Grubee dealership instead of the Hoot one. He's stopped supplying Hoots now because of that abominable gearbox.
Attachments
ok...the real point, the only reason i'd get involved and the only aspect i'm interested in:
imo: this is not a matter of an inferior tensioner, but a matter of the ethics behind how an end-user would wind up wth the unsafe version when everyone knows how strong it should be...when the product description/picture lists/shows the proper one, yet ships with the inferior one for the same price.
that's "fade" as we've defined it...and fade is ethically wrong.
please, don't give your business to any supplier who'll play with your safety for a few cents per kit.
imo: this is not a matter of an inferior tensioner, but a matter of the ethics behind how an end-user would wind up wth the unsafe version when everyone knows how strong it should be...when the product description/picture lists/shows the proper one, yet ships with the inferior one for the same price.
that's "fade" as we've defined it...and fade is ethically wrong.
please, don't give your business to any supplier who'll play with your safety for a few cents per kit.
I
Irish John
Guest
So you know everything about China from some cheaparze bike motor kit?
Excuse me but I lived and travelled China for 5 hard years of my life, away from my family. To make such an ignorant blanket statement tells me you don't exactly know what you are talking about. We could easily get a properly manufactured chain tensioner in China if required.
There is no standard for such a chain tensioner. There should be proper structural engineering to control form, fit, function, material....and there should be sufficient control at the build factory....I have no idea where the breakdown occurred. This could happen in any country.
You are correct, by geographic vicinity and by common language such shoddy components would be slapped down much quicker in more "western" rules nations, but then again the factories that are succeeding got mucho knowledge from certain westerners...........
Pablo I worked in China from Oct 2000 - November 2004 as an archiect. I would have worked on more construction projects in that time than I worked on in the previous 20 years. These projects were bigger than anything I'd ever experienced in Europe, Australia or the USA.. I have worked for 30 years all over the world and lived in Canada, India, Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, China, England, Scotland and Ireland. I think it highly likely that I've been involved in more production than most people and I have been into countless Chinese factories to get parts fabricated for projects. The problem with quality control in China is enormous but they can do amazingly beautiful work in many fields. My brother has a factory of his own in China where he makes furniture of very good quality but he doesn't get to spend much time at home because he too has big oversight problems to maintain quality. I still go to China because half my European friends from University are working there. Do you know how the best buildings are built in China? They use Hong Kong contractors. It's expensive but on big budget buildings they can sometimes afford that. Hong Kong contractors build to the British Standards.
I also worked for a US Company that had worked in Asia since 1950. They worked so much in Asia that they didn't even have an office in Mainland USA.
And Pablo as you might have guessed my opinion of chinese quality control is pretty low but it is a qualified opinion and I've had the experience of a lot of other places to compare it with.
biketec
Member
This whole thread is very true but at the same time extremely convoluted.Now I'm not positive but if my knowledge serves me right the thick chain guide is a two bolt and the thin is a four bolt, so both in there own way is inferior to one another.Having said that these UNIVERSAL kits are much like politics it seems.... meaning not everybody will be happy we cant please the world, but we are trying to make a valiant effort to make the MB world better.There's always going to be something, I hear your cry's and I try to help as much as I possibly can, these thing evolve with each shipment and everybody's input. I really think this kind of forum can help in the long run but I will leave you on this not and please don't take it the wrong way it just a metaphor. Its a $400.00 UNIVERSAL kit if I went out and bought one and put it together and said its not a Harley well I also didn't spend 30K granted we need some quality control but it only happens in time and with your input. So please if you knew the bottom line .... we aren't saving pennies and nickles we don't need to!!! its just a matter of time before we have a really great product nothing is perfect over night...... OK I spoke my peace now I'm babbling on I hope this helps clarify some of this matter... LOL now I sit back and await the verbal lashings of non informed consumers who know so much about the export import trade they seem to feel it necessary to slander vendors and manufactures.
don't get me wrong, biketec...i'm not bashing people, but principles...the side-debate wasn't my intention, but unavoidable every time i post anywhere because peeps doubt my motivation. let's be clear, there's plenty of builders/riders out there to go around, golden eagle is doing fine and growing daily...my long-term view is one of reliability and trust that whatever you ordered is what will be in the box. that's a fair expectation, now, isn't it?
like you, i do believe that the consumer has had some influence on the few improvements we've seen in the last coupla years.
but, like you, i also believe we have a long way to go to bring the HT (2 or 4) up to speed with the standards we know can be met with more united committment to that goal. i truly hope your feedback on issues like this has been trickling back UP the hill, too...that helps a lot
like you, i do believe that the consumer has had some influence on the few improvements we've seen in the last coupla years.
but, like you, i also believe we have a long way to go to bring the HT (2 or 4) up to speed with the standards we know can be met with more united committment to that goal. i truly hope your feedback on issues like this has been trickling back UP the hill, too...that helps a lot
biketec
Member
I couldn't agree with you more !!! all tho I would have left out plugs as I have left my company out (in fairness and in less heart ache). But your right on the money.
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