Skewers, how strong are they?

[Will'smotobikes19]

Can these mountain bike quick release hubs hold up to bumps and 30mph? If not is there a way to convert to a 9mm thru axle with no skewer? Looking at novatec hubs for my current build. They seem to be strong cnc steel with sealed bearings and there’s some with 36 holes. I’ve picked out one for my front wheel a 100mm with disc mount. Plan on using stock rims with stainless 12 gauge spokes and different tires.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

I don't know what you mean by "these" but the strong quick releases are easily strong enough. The ones you want are specifically Shimano, enclosed cam, with a steel threaded nut.
The single cam inside the heavy enclosed cam Shimano quick release has far less friction than the exposed double cam of any of the popular lightweight alloy QRs, allowing you to close it with a much higher tension.
The steel threaded nut is an absolute necessity.

Bicycle Quick-Release Mechanisms

Advice on selecting, measuring, adjusting, and installing bicycle quick-release mechanisms

www.sheldonbrown.com

Scroll down to "quick-release choices"


You can get Allen key bolt QRs too, Halo are decent. But all of them come with an alloy nut so you have to use a nut from an old Shimano QR. I'd prefer if they used a security torx head and supplied a key for it but no one makes that.


I don't know what you mean by stock rims but I am extremely doubtful that you will get a stronger wheel with 12g spokes in any bicycle rim. The rim is IMHO where you should spend extra for something very strong that allows you to tension the spokes more.
Spokes have to be elastic to stay in tension.
12g spokes require a moped or motorcycle rim to build a strong wheel, because of the tension required to (reversibly) lengthen the spokes. A bicycle rim will break or implode before 12g spokes are adequately lengthened.
If the spokes aren't tensioned until adequately lengthened, then they won't be able to stay in tension by springing back when the wheel rim flexes under load.

With very strong downhill/freeride mountain bicycle rims the 13/15/14g triple butted DT Swiss Alpine spokes actually build the strongest wheels, because the 15g middle section is more elastic than 14g, but a 14g thread nipple is the best fit for the standard holes in the (probably eyeletted) downhill/freeride rim and the 13g bend is the best fit for the standard holes in the hub body.

But getting the strongest rim that can take a higher spokes tension is more important IMHO, it's the starting point, after choosing the tyre width you want. The less expensive Sapim Strong 13/14g spokes are easily good enough for freeride with a strong rim for support so that you can properly tension them.

 

[Will'smotobikes19]

Stock rims as in alloy Walmart schwinn. I need to put together wheels for my project which will be a 49cc full electric start system mountain bike commuting moped. I’m trying to follow along here but don’t even know what part is the cam. I’m totally unfamiliar with skewer hubs. So steel rims are best for 12g? I have a rear cruiser wheel already but it has a coaster hub. Maybe I can use the rim from that as it already has 12g spokes installed and it hasn’t imploded yet. I don’t remember the brand. I believe it’s alloy and even with the sprocket moving against the spokes in that application it has held up so far. This is why I prefer alloy wheels/mag wheels. Not having to tighten or replace spokes, however this build will use a drive ring making spokes necessary it is a GEBE part for 12 gauge spokes. Others have helped on a different thread but most heavy duty wheels are mainly cruiser wheels making it harder to find what I need. The novatec seem to be a good quality type of hub being from Taiwan and not China. Not the best but still better. I also like them because they have sealed bearings. Keep in mind this mountain bike was $150 from Walmart so I am replacing several things. I will get a suntour 100mm travel fork. Others have said to keep the stock wheels but I know China and they just don’t last. I am also using a more street profile tire since it will be for the road. I was just confused because the conversion kits I saw said 15mm thru axle but I don’t think that would fit where the wheel bolts on.

 

[The_Aleman]

I used to question this myself way back when QR wheels became a thing, and then I built a few bicycles with em.

The skewer doesn't actually take any of the weight of the bike, it only serves to keep the wheel tight. The axle itself is hollow, and it could be argued that it's therefore weaker than a good tool-steel 3/8" solid axle or the like. But well, I've seen axles busted of all types and thankfully it never happened to me, QR or not. I've busted a couple skewers on pedal bikes, tho. As long as they aren't overtightened, QR axles tend to work just fine.

The thing with QR axles is that they are designed for a dropout that has no adjustment, such as vertical dropouts. They will slide and move under hard power when used on horizontal rear-exit or semi-horizontal front-exit dropouts. I've done it with just pedal power, which ends with the left side rubbing, while LHS-driven motor power gets the right-side of the wheel rubbing against the chainstay. I've battled that crap a lot over the years.

If you insist on using QR axles, I recommend having some sort of safety in place, like an axle retaining clip and/or best yet - a decent set of axle adjustors. Even a low-power bike can move the wheel if you have low gearing!

 

[Frogslayer]

What do you plan on jumping that your stock rims won't hold up lol. Outside my house growing up was a ditch that had a driveway that made a wicked sweet dirt bike and four wheeler jump. Well i figured out i could book down the road ride a little path down the ditch, hit the driveway and clear the whole thing. Was actually painful landing when over jumped but "just right" was smooth as butter. I personally jumped that on 10 different bikes and saw 10 others of my friends jump it. BMX bikes and mountain bikes, Haros, Huffy, Mongoose, Roadmaster, all kinds. No damage except one time surprisingly, my uncle followed me from the road down the ditch i cleared landed and looked back and seen him soaring way to far wheel full turned left. He never straightened before landing and the rim bent 90 degrees and he tumbled over the bars, rolled and skid then the bike caught up and rolled over him. I don't know how he made it with only bruises and a hurt ego. The bike was completely un rollable. Had to carry the bike 1.5 miles back to his house. Moral of the story. Even cheap Wal-Mart rims seem to hold up. In my uncle's situation no rim would have held up except maybe, maybe a dirt bike rim. Also watched a kid snap the front and rear plastic mag rims in half after hitting a vert ramp too hard at the skate/bike park and missing the ramp for the landing and hitting the asphalt all weird leaning hard and hitting both wheels at the same time. He only got a fat lip and sprained ankle luckily.

 

[Will'smotobikes19]

Well as said above furry thinks they won’t hold up with 12g spokes. It’s mainly the Chinese hubs and tolerances I’m not a fan of.

 

[Frogslayer]

Furry or FOTI is great. I've been reading threads for days now just soaking it in. Should be sweet smooth build. Watching closely!

 

[Will'smotobikes19]

I think I might go over to the bike shop and see if he could put some together and see if he can balance and put the drive ring on.

 

[FurryOnTheInside]

You can't use that rim and add heavy spokes to get a stronger wheel.
The correct tension for 12g spokes is over what mountain bike parts are made to take. Hubs or Rims.
Any gauge spokes in any wheel are under no more tension than the rim and the hub flange can support. So if you overbuild the spokes nothing changes. The maximum tension is the same.

The different gauge spokes will behave differently at that same tension though..

The Halo SAS rim, for example, is rated at 135kg per spoke. The reason for a thinner spoke wheel being stronger at 134kg is the thinner 14g straight section of the spoke is lengthened more when it's under 134kg than a 12g spoke would be, so it can spring back further than a 12g can, therefore the spoke that's at the bottom of the wheel stays in tension when a bigger bump is encountered causing the rim to flex.
The spokes at the top of the wheel stretch too and provide suspension.
A spoked wheel is a suspension bridge!

But for mounting a sheave or a rag joint there is the sideways load that is not at all what spokes were supposed to be used for. It definitely changes the picture.
Perhaps only some of the spokes need to be 12g, then? Only the ones that support the sheave need to resist the bending from the sideways load on a point on the straight section.
Then the rest can be thinner and therefore stronger. Not because they are tighter but because they lengthened more at the same tension. You would have to figure out getting the rim centred, that should be fun.

It depends on the spoke tension rating of the rim, so upgrading the rim to one that will support a high tension is the first step to a stronger spoked wheel.
The same rim will also happen to be very rigid too, so it really is a good place to start with upgrading wheels.
Whatever tension is the maximum according to the rim manufacturer is all you can ever use regardless of the spoke thickness. Yet sometimes that information is not instantly available and included in every advert.

Upgrading to a motorcycle rim is necessary to properly tension and lengthen 12g spokes. They match. But the motorcycle rims are too heavy and the heavy spokes will give no suspension on a lightweight vehicle, performance will suffer from the massive wheels, and your bicycle hubs will be a weak link.

The sheave is a different matter and I wouldn't know about it!
It looks like structural abuse of a spoked wheel to my mind lol.
I think you can put 12g in just for the sheave and tension them about the same as the others.

 

[Will'smotobikes19]

I know about tension but im pretty sure the hub I was looking at is machined steel and not alloy. The front doesn’t need to be 12g but I’d like both wheels’ spokes to be silver.