Small-Engine Makers Voice Concern As EPA Weighs New Ethanol Rule

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Happy Valley, Dec 7, 2009.

  1. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

  2. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Wow, 15%. Here we have E10, (10%), so far, but it's not too popular. No one would buy 15% unless they were forced to.
    I would have thought that high a percentage would absorb too much water.
    ... Steve
  3. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Forget about the lawn mower, my cars will only tolerate "up to" 10% ethanol.
  4. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Good choice of words, arceeguy.
    ... Steve
  5. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Steve, 10% is a issue here not even considering 15%. I'm a boat owner (25' Cuddy w/IO) along with many of my friends that I fish with. When 10% came out it ate up the fuel line hoses (literally disintegrated them) of the older boats and the fuel lines had to be replaced. The greatest issue with 10% at this time is the capability of ethanol to absorb water. To keep that in check we have to run tanks dry, or top off so there is no airspace in the tank, along with adding a water separator. As far as a motor such as a HT, (although I don't like ethanol for other reasons), I don't think we will have an issue with it's use in HT's and other small engines.

    Some other issues I have with ethanol are, but not limited to... It drives up the price of corn, then continues up the chain of food items. Pollution in processing, cost of making it in the US is more costly then buying it on the international market. The energy derived from ethanol is less then more fuel has to be burned. Do you see a cycle here? Most autos on the road were not designed for 10% much less then mods or new autos have to be bought. ITS all about the $$$$$$$$$$$$$$
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  6. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    I didn't know this. Natural rubber fuel lines?

    This bit I did know. Water + Oxygen = Oxidisation. I thought that was the only problem.

    As an octane booster, I reckon it's probably about as good as anything. Speaking of octane boosters, I'm yet to test acetone. I've been told that 2ml per litre of acetone not only raises the octane level but also helps in vaporisation of the mix, especially in these little HT engines.

    I wasn't aware that it drove up the price of food items, but it makes sense.
    Regarding mods or new autos, we just went through all of that in changing to unleaded. What's next?
    Something I've been wondering about. If you don't know, hopefully someone will:-
    From an engine's point of view, what's the difference between methanol and ethanol? Both absorb similar amounts of water and both are alcohol. (Drink, anyone?)

    An informative and thought-provoking post, Al.
    ... Steve
  7. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    Steve...Think about this......

    Ethanol's subsidy from the US federal government might be about $0.75 per gallon.
    Some studies peg the federal ethanol subsidy to producers at $3 billion per year. Not counting farm subsidy's
    The United States last year consumed an estimated 4 billion gallons of ethanol, compared with 140 billion gallons of gasoline. E-15 = 6 billion+ Half again as much corn now used for E-10 In spite of federal subsidies and the high price of oil the E85 fuel (85% ethanol, 15% gasoline) costs more per gallon and carries cars fewer miles. Ethanol has only 67.5% as much energy per gallon as gasoline.
    Plus, stations charge more for E85 than gasoline, even though it carries cars fewer miles.
    One really never thinks what corn is used for. Well let’s look at a few. Let’s start off your day with nice breakfast of bacon, eggs, glass of milk. Then on to lunch, we’ll have a hamburger, bun, ketchup, chips and a soft drink…What’s for dinner...”The other white meat” All produced with corn.
    Actually, thousands of products in a typical supermarket contain corn. A study found corn ingredients in almost 4,000 products - and that doesn't count all the meat, dairy, and poultry products that depend on corn for livestock feed or the many paper products that don't have ingredient labels but do contain corn.

    I remember years back before E-10 (not that long ago) I could buy sweet corn for 10 ears for a buck or less. Now that same sweet corn cost $3.00 and up. With the “Free Enterprise System” …while we still have it, I, like the farmer wants to make good on his crop. Guess what…I’m going to sell to the highest bidder, and if that should be the Ethanol plants, so be it.

    Iowa..the largest producing state...
    "When I drive across Iowa , is all that corn I see really sweet corn?
    Very little of the corn you see growing in Iowa is sweet corn. For example, Iowa farmers harvested 11.9 million acres of field corn in 2002 but only 4,876 acres of sweet corn, according to the U.S. Census of Agriculture."

    By the way, I have friends that have aluminum fuel tanks like eats holes in the tanks due to oxidation and the water settling on the bottom. As far as fuel hoses not sure but all fuel hose made today is made to accept at least E-10 although not sure about E-15.
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2009
  8. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Glad you picked it up. The devil is in the details!

    Face it folks, our engines were designed to burn 100% gasoline. No fillers.
  9. motor_head

    motor_head Member

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 15, 2015
  10. Al.Fisherman

    Al.Fisherman Active Member

    I'm well aware of that fact, that is why there is very little sweet corn grown compared to field corn. Most corn grown is field corn (11.9 million acres) as compared to sweet corn, (4,876 acres) although these are 2002 figures. That is what a 2440.5 to 1 ratio. That is why food prices climbed. Most corn is grown for other uses then human consumption, although we do consume it as an end result.
  11. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Good one Al, saved me the effort. I was just preparing a response myself.
    ... steve
  12. Turtle Tedd

    Turtle Tedd Member

    I love corn..but not in my gasoline