Small ICE engine worse than an SUV?

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by veloman, Jun 23, 2010.

  1. veloman

    veloman Member

    I think too many gas-powered riders are in denial.

    I saw this article today, and I'm not sure how accurate it is, but it's got a point:

    I ride electric, and my 5 Bosch Fatpack Lithium batteries (11ah 36v total) will provide over 20,000 miles of riding. Factoring in the minuscule amount of coal burned to charge them ( $5 in electricity for those 20,000 miles), I can't imagine that the production of the batteries is anything but negligible compared to the amount of pollution from 20,000 miles of a small gas engine (particularly all these 2 strokes I see on here).

    No form of transportation is yet to be completely free of polluting, but as far as I can see, these small ICE engines are horrible in comparison to electrics, and even worse than large automobiles.

    Please don't go around assuming you are helping the environment.

  2. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    There recently has been a heck of alot of pro and con arguing concerning this exact subject here in Kaliforgnia. The state was going to impart legislation concerning biannual smog testing of any motorcycle or scooter with an engine displacement larger than 250cc.
    That is until they realized that the combined volume of such vehicles operating on any given day is less than 0.1% compared to automobiles and trucks, ect.
    The EPA and CARB studied this quite in depth and determined that it would cost the state more that it was worth in regards to reducing such a miniscule volume of pollution produced. It all adds up to a tiny mound of beans, not even a small hill.
  3. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Note, engines with a displacement smaller that 250cc were found to have such a comparatively small volume of pollutants that the state wrote them off as no concern.
    I am talking about California, the SMOG nazi state of the greater 48 states.

    IMHO, the site you linked to is blowing their own opinionated smoke.
    Motorcycles might still be snared in the future though.
    Last edited: Jun 23, 2010
  4. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    you tell me how my r/s eho35 powered bicycles that get 200-220 mpg are worse than an suv and we will continue this conversation.

    my r/s engines dont contain near the nuero-toxins and carcinogens that your li-ion batteries do in production and disposal, your argument there can go two ways.

    so... please dont go around assuming you are helping the environment.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  5. Hawaii_Ed

    Hawaii_Ed Member

    I am a hot rodder, not an eco-rider. My cars are fast, and so is my bike. the 120mpg I get is good for saving $$$, and it is still a fun ride for my short commute to work. I uunderstand the emissions issue, and I have lived in Vietnam/other SE Asia countries with a ton of smog and noise from mainly scooters. The article makes good points, and is interesting, but I still say the 1 gallon of gas a week the bike takes compared to the 12 gallons my Chevy would burn is a help on the enviromental impact as well.
  6. veloman

    veloman Member

    I still feel responsible, in a way for the Gulf oil spill when I fill up my car at the gas station. (last one was Valero) Although I've only done it once in the past 2 months, and that was due to me having to drive my car since I was sick.

    I don't know much about possible 'clean' ICE engines which some of you may have. My beef is with those who are running those cheap 2 strokes which are undoubtably very bad for the environment.
  7. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    I dont... why would I worry about gas any more than all my other consumption. Do you think about the people in the coal mines when you turn on your light switch???

    I doubt the small 2 strokes are that much worse than all the others in the long run...

    I live in a place that has regular forest fires... the zacca fire rained ash on us for about 2 months, could t see the sun for 3. Cant imagine how many ICE's it would take to equal that amount of pollution.
  8. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    Two words: Cow farts.
    Look it up.
  9. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    I know... we have a ton of dairies in the surrounding communities.

    The stench gets so thick in the summer, sometimes you can taste it if you live on the northwest end of town and catch the wrong wind.
  10. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Not too mention Oildale, vtec. When I was a kid driving to Bakersfield on the road from Woody was an "adventure" in choking on the fumes.
  11. moondog

    moondog Member

    I remember waiting in the long gas lines in the 70's.

    Our govt made a deal with the devil to get the gas flowing again and now the devil wants his.

    Gasoline ! The devils trick ! ! !

    About the best we can do is see how little of it we can burn.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  12. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    the air has cleaned up significantly in the last couple of years. The road to woody is a great Saturday drive in the super snake... we always get a burger at the crazy horse saloon before we head back.
  13. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    I don't really have a problem with what you've said, moondog, but I think you are neglecting to look far enough back and widely enough to identify when/where that deal was struck.

    Personally, I put it two decades farther back, or even 3 1/2. When this nation went on a war footing during WWII, one of the biggest problems logistics planners encountered was an inadequate transportation infrastructure to move the literally billions of tons of materials and personnel in a timely manner. Which was why so much of our war production was concentrated in relatively few areas. Even with military control and prioritization of the railroads a reality, it remained a huge bottleneck in the supply lines.

    Post war, the Dept of Defense began pushing very hard indeed for a network of interconnected limited access high speed highways, and that process began with the institution of the Dwight D. Eisenhower National Defense Highway System - what today we call the interstates. Throughout the late 1950's and the 1960's the government provided tax incentives, low interest loans, and grants to enormously build up the highways and the trucking firms that use them. They did so at the cost of essentially abandoning the railroads. During that same period the government built thousands of miles of cargo canals, and hundreds of locks, and subsidized the barge companies moving bulk goods on them - again at the expense of the railroads and with zero intention of recouping the costs from the companies using those facilities in any meaningful way.

    The evolution of the American love affair with automobiles was more a case of government acting as pimp to put a really attractive floozy on the street for the fools. Like all such trollops, she is proving to seldom be worth her cost, and has lead the body politic down the road to perdition.

    The single most efficient wheeled transport known to man is the bicycle - the pedaled bicycle. For moving freight, in terms of the real costs of infrastructure maintenance and vehicular operation, the most efficient form of transport ever devised is steel wheels on steel rails. Railroads.

    According to the National Transportation Institute, for less than 50% of what we have spent to date on freeways alone, we could have a rail network that reaches into every single community of 5,000 people or more on at least a daily basis.

    Think about that.
  14. veloman

    veloman Member

    That's very interesting SimpleSimon.

    It's scary to think there is some hidden agenda going on...
  15. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    just the tip of the iceberg.
  16. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    there is one thing you left out here simon... personal freedom.

    There is a reason the automobile flourished the way it did. Once the assembly line put the automobile within reach of the average man... he could go anywhere, anytime and with his family.

    Your concept of collective planning and control takes the personal freedom away from the average man and puts him on a bicycle. That means he is restricted to less than 50 miles @ best (alone). Not suiting to the American free spirit... most likely the reason we didn't go that route.

    I agree we need rail transportation for bulk goods... BUT NOT PERSONAL TRANSPORTATION. Trains suck!!! Ever ridden the amtrak???
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  17. moondog

    moondog Member

    Yet try and be free from buying gas or oil ! It's hard to do, I know.

    Freedom from burning oil. That is the freedom I desire !

    Are we all connected ? Do we all need to get off gas at once or am I free to seek my desire regardless ?

    Surely I don't have to wait on President what's his name ?
  18. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    you wouldn't be saying that if gas was < $1 (thats less than a dollar for those of you in rio linda).

    Gas is expensive because there are a good deal of people that wish it to be... although its more complicated than I have presented it, there isn't much more to it than that.

    Why dont you ask why obama is forcing a drilling moratorium at the same time he is investing in the latin American offshore drilling infrastructure.... "coincidentally" at the same time hugo nationalized a dozen American offshore rigs into his own venezuelan fleet.
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2010
  19. moondog

    moondog Member

    i stand and cry when they show the people that have died in the wars on the News Hour.

    I take it hard.

    I know where they are getting the money to kill our troops.

    From the sale of oil.

    I do not want to support the people that are killing our troops.

    I want to be free from funding the people that are trying to destroy freedom ! ! !
  20. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    me either... drill baby drill!!!