Sportsman Flyer Build

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by Tom from Rubicon, Jun 6, 2016.

  1. Here is another thing, Be careful what you want. Do not exceed your capability's unless you have a good machine shop accessible. I own one and a good one at that.
    Having performed work in trade for goods with CostomMotoredBicycles.com I was offered a laced free wheel with disc brake threaded mounting holes which was a return. ( Broken Screw ).
    Today I made a setup in the Bridgeport, the rim supported by blocks on either side of the mill vise. I had the freewheel sprocket against the mill vise jaw so it would not change position. Setup complete, all six holes redrilled and rethreaded
    1/4=28 NF thread which for it's size I think superior to 6mm x 1.
    There is more to this story, but I have been up since 3 AM. I'm running out of gas.
    Tom from Rubicon
     

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  2. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    Aye, aye. Good advice. I was thinking about reversing my HS-142F on the mount and then trying to setup a CCW gearing to a SBP freewheel but the problem with that is #1 it is untested and #2 I don't think I can align the SBP freewheel with the drive sprocket. So, something like this which butre said could work...
     

    Attached Files:

  3. CrazyDan

    CrazyDan Active Member

    That could actually work. A jackshaft could be used to properly align the chain. Love the drawing, very useful in explaining the concept, stared at it a few moments :D.
     
  4. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    Thanks, i think the drawing is better than the Mona Lisa! I am going to get a pocket bike transmission to replace my gasbike one and will need to remove the engine to drill new holes for alignment. I guess I can really give if reversing the engine is possible (clearance with mount, enough space for setup) a good look. I would like to avoid as many extra gears/jackshafts as possible otherwise it would be better to just go with the entire SBP kit instead of only the freewheel and a couple of sprockets.
     
  5. A letter to Sportsman Flyer;
    " Better than Christmas, I got what I wanted.
    The quality of the Engine Mount System exceeds my expectations.
    Came home from work today and installed the system in my frame in 10 min..
    Only thing I did extra was brake and polish the inside corners of the clamp straps.
    To minimize scratches in the paint.
    The top engine mount…. a fine piece of engineering. "

    Mounting the engine is super simple,
    1. Unbolt engine bracket from cradle.
    2. Screw 4, 8mm bolts thru bracket into engine block
    3. Replace engine bracket in cradle and refasten.
    Done.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Sep 11, 2016
  6. Frankfort MB's

    Frankfort MB's Well-Known Member

    It's looking nice!! Love the idea!!
    what do you plan to do to the motor?
     
    Tom from Rubicon likes this.
  7. Only engine change is a 19mm Mikuni carb and removed the internal governor gear. Photos to follow.
     
  8. CrazyDan

    CrazyDan Active Member

    That sir, is a beautiful mount.
     
  9. upload_2016-9-18_9-42-25.png
    Transmission in, had to cut down the width of the bike stand clamp to 2 3/8". The Q-matic clutch bracket extends 2" beyond the mounting plate. Sportsman Flyer engine mounts have no side way adjustment.
     
  10. kevininpa

    kevininpa New Member

    Tom, you're building what I want. I'm going to follow you're progress and will probably have many questions since I'm a newb. I'm good with bicycles and small engines. Also know a machinist and a fitter who happens to buils custom Harleys. I may actually have a motor mount tig welded directly to the frame. If he can do motorcycles, I'm sure that a motorized bicycle is no challenge for him!
     
    Tom from Rubicon likes this.
  11. For those new to this thread I am building a Sportsman Flyer one off. DSCN0692.JPG
    The Q-matic transmission has been a challenge from the get go. The trans frame as delivered that CustomMotoredBicycles ordered for me was not the right one. So I made a new one of 6061 T6 1/4" thick. A Q-matic does not fit a drop loop Flyer frame without some engineered modification as the inside clutch support bracket interferes with chain stay primarily and seat tube secondarily. The clutch support bracket has to be modified and then a block of 6061T6 aluminum 2X2X2.5 has to be machined to replace the section removed. This all sounds complicated but it really was just more work to reach a goal. Left side bracket is OEM, the red section is my modification. It seems that when ever I go where I have never been before, I approach everything incrementally. It is very time consuming.
    Next challenge is intake and exhaust manifolds.
     
  12. Kevin, PM me if you like.
     
  13. Another thought This could be another solution 3dmotorsport . If they stay in business would be interesting.
    A manual clutch offers engine braking, and possibly allow low speed acceleration when called to parade duty.
    I was offered a place in the Ontario,WI 4th of July parade. I declined because a centrifugal clutch doesn't start to fully engage at 15 mph and above. In retrospect, I could have performed loops around sections of the parade.
    This is another quandary. Burn out my Huffy Davidson or.... to be continued. Replies encouraged.
    Tom from Rubicon,WI
     
    bakaneko likes this.
  14. kevininpa

    kevininpa New Member

    This thread will be like having someone walking me through the build. Only in planning stage right now. If I'm going to spend a lot of money on this, I want it 100% planned out. That way I hope to run into only 40% problems ;). Wish I could build one of these geared the way they're meant to be. Pa laws don't allow that. Going to push it with a 79 cc Predator with one of Lynn's 49 cc stickers. We're supposed to run 50 cc or less.

    A question I do have is this: Would the 79 cc Lifan motor have made the job easier since the motor is already at 90 degrees instead of being on a slant?
     
    Tom from Rubicon likes this.
  15. bakaneko

    bakaneko Active Member

    It goes to show despite how much we bash the Chinese kits they have done quite a bit of work to make them almost "out of the box" ready. Keep working on it! It is getting cold though. I've been thinking about making a 20" folding bike friction drive with a pocket bike motor (or better).

    I need to do the calculations but I am thinking it should have a lot of torque without sacrificing a 30-35 mph top speed range and it just looks damn cool. Plus, it is great for short people and you can throw it in the trunk of a car or back of a SUV without fear of gas spills. A couple of issues: one the only guy that has it on YouTube is not responding to questions, the staton-inc guys are not really saying if it will or will not work and suggested this super expensive kit instead of the standard $120, and most likely you will have to do some modifications to get the staton-inc friction drive to fit correctly on a 20" tire and frame...

    This guy has a really nice setup to disengage the friction drive from the tire but I am fine with just getting off the bike and unlocking it like other friction drive guys.



     
    Tom from Rubicon likes this.
  16. Kevin, I have zero experience with a lifan. I went Predator 79cc because that is the engine that Pat Dolan'
    Sportsman Flyer 80 is based on. The problems I have incurred I caused by choosing a Q=matic transmission.
    Pat has a well engineered transmission that in hindsight I should have chosen. The Flyer 80 engine mount is a flawless work of art and designed for the "Worksman Drop Frame" specifically. If you are financially able I would say,
    "Do not pass Go - Go directly to Sportsman Flyer website". Pat's toll free # does not work, you have to make contact
    via email.
    I have also purchased Pat's Sportsman Flyer fuel tank and tool box. Total value of that purchase = the cost of 49cc 4stroke BikeBerry kit + a Huffy Cranbrook build.
     
  17. Stanton = $$$ and their customer service has a poor reputation. I have never given friction drive much consideration, though it has been around for 100+ years. I saw a front wheel friction drive bike on Milwaukee Craigslist for a little over $100. It is a fixer upper.
    My coworker with the 212cc build is starting a trike build. I will have to get some photos of it. I warned him that there are stability problems that result from exceeding 20mph which he has dismissed
     
  18. kevininpa

    kevininpa New Member

    Yeah, there's a reason trikes were banned years ago. At least the wheelbase on on a pedal trike is longer and more stable. They use Workman trikes around the plant I work at. Nice units. They would make a great build.
     
  19. I can't answer that one Kevin, but having just had a phone conversation with Quenton Guenther he was not very supportive regarding a vertical 79cc HF set up. Quenten stated that engine failures are frequent with a vertical HF.
    Mostly due to inadequate engine venting caused by the extra volume of oil needed to lubricate the engine. I am going to have to have to find a way to remedy this condition. Sportsman Flyer's that Dolan builds have no history of this problem.
     
  20. Had a phone conversation with Quenton Guenther today to ask him for advise. If you review my previous posts you will see the engine - transmission. They are at 90 degrees, as such the lower part of the chain loop will not clear the chain stay.
    I will have to rotate the main plate 15 to 20 degrees upward to clear the chain stay. There are other details which when the mods are completed I will photo and post. This is a important thing to consider if you want a Sportsman Flyer.
    Pat Dolan has a well engineered and proven design , if you choose not to use his kit complete you set yourself up for a learning curve of engineering development that is yours and you will be responsible for the out come. I think I will succeed and as I have said I will make progress reports as I am able. Tom from Rubicon, WI
     
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