The End of MBs in the US

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Tyler6357, Sep 15, 2012.

  1. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    New EPA rules will end 2 stroke motors and destroy existing ones with Ethanol. It seems this MB hobby will soon come to an end in the United States. The issue at hand is the EPA's desire to increase the level in ethanol in gasoline to up to 15%. [Currently, the standard ethanol level is 10%.] Moreover, as part of its new regulations, the EPA will be requiring all consumers to purchase at least four gallons of gas. Presumably, even those bikers with four or five gallon gas tanks will be required to run their tanks to empty (or nearly to empty) in order to purchase the four-gallon minimum. This means bikers would not be allowed to top off when they come upon signs that say last gas station for ____ miles-which means more cyclists will likely be stranded on the side of roads with empty tanks. Additionally, according to the American Motorcycle Association, the EPA's new edict may end up causing damage to smaller engines.

    According to the American Motorcycle Association:

    The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency will require all consumers to buy at least four gallons of gasoline from certain gas pumps after the new E15 ethanol-gasoline blend is introduced into the market.

    The EPA revealed the requirement to the American Motorcyclist Association in a letter dated Aug. 1, responding to AMA concerns that E15 - a gasoline formulation that contains up to 15 percent ethanol by volume - could be put in motorcycle and all-terrain vehicle gas tanks inadvertently when consumers use blender pumps. A blender pump dispenses different fuel blends through the same hose, and the vast majority of motorcycles and ATVs in use today aren't designed to operate on E15 fuel.

    The AMA has repeatedly expressed concerns to government officials and federal lawmakers about possible damage to motorcycle and ATV engines caused by the inadvertent use of E15 when the new fuel becomes widely available, and has asked that motorcycles and ATVs be part of any scientific study into the effects of E15.

    Ethanol is essentially grain alcohol produced from crops such as corn that is mixed with gasoline to produce an ethanol-gasoline blend motor fuel. In October 2010, the EPA approved the use of E15 in model year 2007 and newer light-duty vehicles (cars, light-duty trucks and medium-duty passenger vehicles). Then, in January 2011, the EPA added model year 2001-06 light-duty vehicles to the approved list.

    As has become all too typical with the Obama Administration, Lisa Jackson and her abusive idiots at the EPA rammed through its new regulations outside the normal rule making process.

    The EPA has no business telling Americans how much fuel they must purchase. This unprecedented attempt to remedy the consequences of EPA's E15 waivers will not prevent widespread misfueling of millions of vehicles and products already owned by Americans that are not covered by the waiver decisions and introduces an unacceptable intrusion into the daily lives of drivers.

    Furthermore, EPA's first-ever fuel purchase requirement appears to have been made outside the normal rulemaking process, seems antithetical to free markets, and highlights the flaws in the Agency's hasty decision to grant partial waivers for E15 prior to comprehensive scientific assessment and evaluation.

    Garden equipment like lawn mowers and leaf blowers have long been on the EPA's hit list, as have ATVs and motorcycles.

    This will be the first time, however, the EPA's enviro-whackos have told Americans how much gas they must buy.

    Nothing like a little hope and change huh? Oh well, it was fun while it lasted.
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 16, 2015

  2. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    I though America was like what Australia once used to be: a land of the fair and free!

    That's outrageous, having to purchase a minimum of 4 gallons, when your fuel tank only holds half a gallon.
  3. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    It is unreal. I usually fill a 2.5 gal gas can and mix my fuel with oil at home for my 66cc/2 stroke bicycle engine and I guess I can get a 5 gal can. The 4 gal min. requirement isn't that big of a deal for me although those with 4stroke engines will no longer be able to pull up to the pump and fill their bikes with less than a gal of gas unless they just waste over 3 gals paid for and unused.

    But the biggest problem for me is the new Ethanol blend of 15%. Ethanol is terrible for 2 stroke engines. It destroys them! 10% ethanol isn't even good for them but 15% will totally destroy them, I feel sorry for the motorcyclists though. Sigh, what has happend to the country I love?
  4. Quadranut

    Quadranut Member

    An observation

    Here in Wisconsin several stations sell 100% gas and have separated those pumps from the blended fuel dispensers. I only fill up at those pumps. And I do get some really big smiles from the counter people when I tell em pump # 4 and the total is 55 cents Plus I only run 93 octane which for the most part is 100 % gas. Again, just an observation.

    Honda 35 gx 4 stroke Staton FD

  5. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    Please, people!!! This whole ethanol scare is rediculous. My brother has been distilling his own fuel for years, and his engines have held up fine. He makes methanol from grass clippings and wood chips, and has re-jetted his ATV and chainsaws, mowers, etc. The fuel limit may go over in the People's Republic of California, but will never work in the rest of the country. This current ethanol binge is brought to you by Monsanto and other large corporations bent on selling us ever larger amounts of genetically modified grains. Just say NO! In my hometown, we have 2 stations that sell 100% gas. (only 91 octane) They get my business, and a lot of others. If the bikers band together we can defeat this limit law, if it is even true and not just someone's political propaganda. I would think that with the current empathsis on energy conservation, the government would encourage the increase in smaller engines. 2 stroke engines are here to stay, especially in my home state, where a lot of people still cut their own firewood, hunt their own game, (ATV) fishing, (outboards) etc. Sorry for rambling, but this thread appears to be a hoax perpetrated by someone with an agenda, and I'm not buying it.
  6. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    Well, pulling up to the pump and putting 55 cents in will come end. This is not a silly CA thing but a FEDERAL GOVERNMENT MANDATE. These new restrictions will apply to every state. Stations will no longer be able to sell pure unblended gas and everyone will have to buy a min of 4 gals at a time.
  7. motman812

    motman812 Member

    explanation from the AMA web site

    The reason for the four gallon minimum is to protect small engines from fueling with the E15 gasoline and it applies only to dispensing hoses that are either dedicated E15 or E15/E10 combination hoses. This information is from the AMA's web site (, quoted below.

    "EPA requires that retail stations that own or operate blender pumps either dispense E15 from a dedicated hose and nozzle if able or, in the case of E15 and E10 being dispensed from the same hose, require that at least four gallons of fuel be purchased to prevent vehicles and engines with smaller fuel tanks from being exposed to gasoline-ethanol blended fuels containing greater than 10 volume percent ethanol."
  8. Quadranut

    Quadranut Member

    OK I am off to the retailer I buy from and ask
  9. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    It is not a "hoax", haha, I only wish it was. Here is a link of the copy of the letter sent to the EPA from the American Motorcycle Association. It's not like I'm making this stuff up dude! It's nice to hear that you are having no trouble running your engine on wood chips and such but experts have tested small motors and found that Ethanol has proved to be terrible for the life of small engines, particularly 2 stroke engines. It's true that the very blue state of CA is crazy in love with blended gas but you are wrong that oil companies want these restrictions placed on them because it costs them big money to refine gasoline with these different blends. In my state you can't even get a 2 stroke engine sent in to CA. To get my 2 stroke kit I actually had to have it sent to a friend in another state and have them send it to me (illegally) because it is against the law to send them to people in CA. If you don't believe me go to ebay and look up 2 stroke bike kits, every one of them says "WILL NOT SEND TO CA RESIDENTS." Also, CA has 10s of 1000s of bikers and they did band together but still failed to stop these CA mandates. The pols here just don't care what bikers have to say. It's very clear that the environmentalist wackjobs HATE 2 stroke engines because of their extra exhaust when mixed with oil. You should do some research on this before you "ramble on" about stuff you know nothing about and essentially call me a liar because it makes you look ignorant. I will say that you are correct about one thing, this is a political agenda but it certainly is not propaganda. This is all too real.
  10. Quadranut

    Quadranut Member

    me neither Thanks for stating the obvious PH

  11. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    Well, I hope you are right but I doubt it. Maybe living in the people's republic of CA has jaded my opinion but I have seen these restrictions and mandates happen here with my own eyes. It is acutally against the law to sell unblended gas anywhere in CA right now. I hope I am wrong about these new federal mandates but I have a feeling you might be in for a surprise in the next year. Anyway, I mean no offense, I don't mean this as anything personal but I'm worried. :) Ride on!
  12. Quadranut

    Quadranut Member


    I hope you are wrong also. And no offense is taken. But, here in the midwest things change a little slower, just an observation mind you. But coming back from my local supplier they haven't heard anything about this ..... yet, and I hope they don't either. As far as they know 91 octane and higher isn't blended with ethanol, and as stated on the pump face 93 is " pure" gasoline.
  13. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    That is interesting. I don't believe that here in CA you can get anything higher than 91 octane gas and I'm almost certain that it is blended E10 gas (99% sure) but I will check into it further. I have been using the cheap stuff because I believe the higher octane stuff is blended E10 and a friend told me that the higher octane makes no difference for my 2 stroke engine. If I find out differently I will gladly tell everyone here that I was wrong about this and I will switch to the good stuff for my MB or maybe I will move to Wisconsin, haha. I wish things changed slower here.
  14. Quadranut

    Quadranut Member

    :evilgrin: Come on out and ride in the snow with the rest of us LMAO. Just kiddin My Friend.

    I do however appreciate the info that you have provided. Information is power and power is information. I won't and do not want to get into a political debate about this but I do however agree that a minimum purchase is a bunch of BS. Hope you can weather the storm out west with favorable results.
  15. I remember the exact same sort of hysteria when unleaded gas was mandated. OMG!!! This is the end of; motorcycling, private cars, ATVs, motorboating, autoracing, etc, pick your motorsport. Humans are flexible and inovative. Where there is a will, a way will be found. Put away your blind fear and hysteria, relax, we put men on the moon and this is child's play in comparison. We managed to survive unleaded and we will survive this as well. *sigh* When in trouble, or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout! This makes me laugh. Save the politics for a forum where it belongs and let's stick to motoredbikes on this forum.
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2012
  16. Tyler6357

    Tyler6357 Member

    Hey, right on, I didn't mean to turn this into a political debate either. I know it's an election year but I posted this thread anyway because it is an important issue for us MBers. I actually prefer a divided government so that one party or the other doesn't control everything because then there are no checks and balances. I believe that the Constitution is never safe when congress is in session, haha, but I guess my fellow Californians don't agree with me. However, I am a global warming skeptic and I don't believe my MB is destroying the environment or making the seas rise.

    The funny thing about the laws regarding 2 stroke engines in CA is that it is not against the law to have a 2 stroke engine, just against the law to send them into the state. I won't get stopped by the cops for having it and there are some places that are located in CA who will ship a 2 stroke engine to a customer within the state of CA but it is against the law to send 2 stroke engines to CA from outside the state. Go figure. The problem is that those few places in CA who will send one to me have jacked up the prices because they know they are some of the few places where CA residents can get a 2 stroke engine. I don't know how they get them into the state to sell to me and I'm certain that they are not made here. I guess CA can't prosecute Chinese companies or something, hmmmmm. Anyway, I think the whole thing is silly. After all, they get 100+ MPG, that should be "green" enough. I think the politicians here have to much time on their hands.
  17. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Pretty silly, they've shown over and over again it's not worth the cost of wasting food on squeezings.I also fill up the big cans when doing big hauls to town, then fill at the house, but not being able to buy the amount of gas you want, or spending what you want. is crazy control.Glad I'm on the downhill side of life, I don't follow stupid laws.
  18. tooljunkie

    tooljunkie Member

    life as a canuck,where every household has at least one 2 stroke motor.i think i have seven.
    the four stroke Stihl power equipment at work is all running mixed has no oil in crankcase.but it is in fact a four stroke.

    what about all the damage the higher ethanol levels will do?
    it will trash most fuel systems.
    i dont think this will go far,keep on doin what you do ,if it does happen,dont worry,someone will think of a cure for two stroke alcoholism.
  19. gmoney

    gmoney New Member

    The sky is falling. While its true about California,I truly believe the rest of the country will be allowed to use two cycle engines.I wont believe it to I see it,meaning being forced to buy a four gallon minimum. It will have to go through the House & the Senate. Demonizing the Obama administration is just that. The president makes rational decisions the majority of the time. Except for maybe who should be allowed to marry. Anyway don't go disassembling your bikes fellas the sky ain't falling. P.s. even if we are required to buy four gallons ot wont stop us,nothing will.
  20. lip

    lip New Member

    Man I'm lucky. I have a gas station right around the block that sells pure 100 race gas at the pump, but this is las vegas and we do things a little different. I buy it just for the smell!