the geet system

HHO has been prooven to increase fuel economy and reduce exhaust emmissions.
Magnets have been prooven to stick to refrigerators.
Acetone has been prooven to do no help nor harm to an ICE.
 

The peanut butter or mayonaise jar generators are pure garbage!
These fly by night money grubbing low life scumbags are giving the honest HHO experimenters a bad rap.
No one has been able to make a generator that will allow an automotive engine to run on HHO alone.
The generators that do help MPG and emmissions are not cost effective for the average Joe to build.
The truth in the matter is it is all experimental right now.
There are many, many web sites and books available now that give all kinds of wonderful claims. They are pure garbage.
Look on youtube. Try a search on Zero Fossil Fuel or Scarecrow labs, or ebn (energy builders network).
These are the real people. They will not tell you they have found the holy grail of alternative energy. They are just trying to improove the technology to the point where it can be a viable assist.
 
this may be kinda off topic... but couldnt you do achieve these results from natural gas injection @ the manifold???? What do you guys think about natural gas powered vehicles in general... they had a natural gas civic at the Honda dealership here. It was pretty cool and you could buy a home fill station.
 
arceeguy, go ahead and be shocked.

Everything I said in that post is derived from an analysis of the dynamics of fuel vaporization and combustion in an IC engine. HHO in and of itself contributes no net energy to the engines combustion cycle - it takes just as much energy to disassociate the atoms in a water molecile into the constituent gases as is produced by their combustion. In fact, in that the energy used by HHO generators to disassociate the atoms is derived from the mechanical energy output of the engine, then converted to electricity, which is then used in driving an electro-chemical reaction, there are losses at each and every step. Actual energy recovered from the produced HHO might be in the neighborhood of 70% of energy used to drive its production.

Yet HHO has been shown in careful testing to increase engine efficiency as measured in mpg. Which is what got me curious, and prompted my examination of what is actually occuring. What I said about the effect of hydrogen gas on short chain hydrocarbons (such as are typically found in motor fuels) is true and well known. Chemosynthesis reactions utilize those effects every day in refineries all over the world.

HHO in and of itself is useless as a fuel. HHO in combination with hydrocarbon fuels can be effective in promoting the efficiency of burn in an engine of the primary hydrocarbon fuel, thus improving engine efficiency.

Please note, I have said NOTHING as regards "magnetic treatment". Nor have I addressed the comspiracy theories surrounding many of these developments.

I am simply addressing the demonstrable facts as regards chemical reactions in a high velocity/high temperature and recurringly high pressure combustion process involving a mix of gaseous and liquid droplet combustants.

Do your own analysis, and show me how my understanding is incorrect. I did not draw that analysis from any external source, I drew it from an understanding of chemistry, fluid dynamics, and the facts of the processes internal to IC engines.

Prove me wrong.
 
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A buddy of mine in college fabbed up a gizmo for his Ford Galaxie that consisted of an aluminum manifold machined in two halves with a channel passing around the inside and fins on the outside. This was bolted to the block and the fuel pump hooked into one side, the other exited into the intake.

When it got hot, it vaporized the fuel and seemed to increase mileage by about 20%. He sent the specs to Ford and they replied that it would never work.


You are probably thinking of Smokey Yunic

A race car builder , and mechanic who created something called the HOT GAS ENGINE.
linky goodness.
http://schou.dk/hvce/

The device created quite a fuss then was quietly quashed.
 
Yet HHO has been shown in careful testing to increase engine efficiency as measured in mpg.
Your careful testing, the EPA, a university study, or what you read on the internet?

What I said about the effect of hydrogen gas on short chain hydrocarbons (such as are typically found in motor fuels) is true and well known. Chemosynthesis reactions utilize those effects every day in refineries all over the world.
While it sounds convincing when you say that hydrogen acts to somehow reduce "surface tension" with the fuel, this same type of language is used with the acetone hoax. Are there any white papers you can link to to support this? And if refineries utilize these reactions around the world, why don't they treat the fuel before they sell it. We see new fuels that are "nitrogen enriched" on the market, what about "hydrogen enriched" fuels?

Please note, I have said NOTHING as regards "magnetic treatment". Nor have I addressed the comspiracy theories surrounding many of these developments.

Acknowleged, but I lump HHO in with the rest of the fuel saving ideas that people claim are being supressed by "the man".

Do your own analysis, and show me how my understanding is incorrect. I did not draw that analysis from any external source, I drew it from an understanding of chemistry, fluid dynamics, and the facts of the processes internal to IC engines.
In other words, you posted your own opinion. (in your typical verbose manner) And I am posting mine. I have searched for any credible sources that cite any trustworthy evidence that HHO improves fuel economy and have come up empty. Therefore I can only assume it is a hoax.

Think about it, modern cars have powerful computer controlled fuel management systems that burn fuel so efficiently that very little pollution is created. V8 powered cars that get upwards of 30 mpg are a result of this technology, even though cars are heavier than they used to be because of ever increasing safety regs. I just don't think that combustion efficiency can be improved all that much over what has been attained now - which is darn near perfect.

Prove me wrong.

You are the one making claims about HHO, I believe the burden of proof is on you - not me.
EPA study, university study, anything?
 
I suggest that you go read up on hydrogenation reactions, with emphasis on the fact that such reactions occur un-catalyzed in regimes of increased temperature/pressure. Likewise on surface tension and the effect of the addition of hydrogen to the carbon compounds which make up the primary constituents of motor fuels. While I didn't address it directly, vapor pressure also plays a part.

If you want an education, acquire one. It isn't my job to provide it. My summation is based - as I clearly stated - on my own analysis of the dynamics of IC engine processes. I freely acknowledge that that analysis may be in error, and invite you to demonstrate that error if you can.

In other words, arcee - put up or shut up. I am aware that you apparently feel some animus toward me, for reasons peculiar to yourself, and assure you it is not returned.

If you can show me my error in analysis, I'll quite readily acknowledge it.
 
I suggest that you go read up on hydrogenation reactions, with emphasis on the fact that such reactions occur un-catalyzed in regimes of increased temperature/pressure. Likewise on surface tension and the effect of the addition of hydrogen to the carbon compounds which make up the primary constituents of motor fuels. While I didn't address it directly, vapor pressure also plays a part.
mmmmkay......very scientific sounding.......

......If you want an education, acquire one. It isn't my job to provide it. My summation is based - as I clearly stated - on my own analysis of the dynamics of IC engine processes. I freely acknowledge that that analysis may be in error, and invite you to demonstrate that error if you can.
mmmmmmkay.....there's theory and practical application. I don't have to understand the theory to see the results of the practical application, so an education in petrochemistry is not required by me. All I asked for was a supporting white paper from a credible source.

.......In other words, arcee - put up or shut up. I am aware that you apparently feel some animus toward me, for reasons peculiar to yourself, and assure you it is not returned.

If you can show me my error in analysis, I'll quite readily acknowledge it.

There's where you are wrong Simon, I have no animus toward you. I said I was surprised that you believed in HHO because I value your opinions. I found it hard to believe that a fellow like yourself would believe in something unless there was actual scientific proof. You offer what sounds like an impressive scientific opinion, but no white paper to support your theorized chemical reaction between hydrogen and gasoline. Put up or shut up? tsk, tsk......
 
If you want an education, acquire one. It isn't my job to provide it.

Believe it or not, it's easier to learn while a sharp witted jab is being exchanged here and there... Makes me laugh! Hope you guy's ain't too serious.

Education??? That was my point in starting the thread! I was ignorant on the subject!:rolleyes:
 
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