the HEADSMESS thread :o

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by HeadSmess, May 30, 2013.

  1. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    making things. i like making things.

    i guess i should just make my own thread of silly things ive made, for and related to the area of motorized bicycles.

    good for me too cus ive never really catalogued or taken notes.

    my harddrives a mess. random pics here there and everywhere...

    so this is a bit of a kick up the :poop: chute for myself to get me off my butt and making these things.

    ill also accept sensible suggestions within the realms of possibility. custom work...


    regards squish bands. i vaguely mentioned having some 80mm billet and a mill.

    so, my results so far...

    PICT0297 (Large).jpg

    one hemisphere. so far so good. more of a semi hemi sphere... probably a radius of 18, and about 5 deep... so a slice of sphere... 2.2cm^3 apparently, if my labware can be trusted. eep. that is...lemme see... 2/3 of 48...32... way high. ima gunna blow! i need a tighter hemisphere me thinks :( more volume!

    um... been stuffing round trying to cut fins today. went for 8mm cutter. try out a new plan on the next one :) takes a while to try out each layout.

    but! 90 % finned...

    PICT0321 (Large).jpg

    went for a neato angled fin look :) ignore the four extra stud holes where the drawing messed me up... grrrr. 2mm out. grrr. it wasna me!

    im hoping the mechanic has a standard plug tap. or a helicoil. or someone has one. cus i sure dont.

    there may be a tapped hole in the centre but thats just cus the billet had a previous life... its wrong pitch, diameter, everything.

    um. i can mill threads but it involves destroying a tap for a cutter and using a weird program with gremlins. but then they can be indexed.

    until then theres not much more to add.

    got a squish of about .65, seems pointless when the piston is chamfered at the edge, but hey... i tried matching the chamfer a lil bit? hard to do without recessing the head a bit, or shave cylinder. chamfer is deep, cylinder has a radius at the top edge. crown only just emerges from cylinder.

    i do have to shave a cylinder down to the edge of the chamfer, but for now, im just looking to see what gains i get on a stock motor...

    yes, its a 48 head. yes, ill be looking at making them on a regular basis. round, square, whatever. this is a trial only. play around with plug types as i get more taps. like D or C sizes...

    part of the reason i was contemplating a water cooled head was that...its going to be painful holding this thing now the fins are cut... unless i make that jig i was contemplating to hold heads with. means a new head to try a different hemi... :(

    next thing in the pipeline is a dyno of some sort. it will share one characteristic with real dynos...the readings wont be real figures but as a guideline only. simple alternator will do it :) big fat heavy load resistor, variable voltage to field windings, read current/voltage running through load resistor. raise voltage at field windings until the thing stalls :)

    pipeline, pipeline... a two speed shift. not running through the derailleur.

    chain tensioner bracket clamp thingy cus ive lost way too many spokes in the past due to that thing slipping.

    a nikasil cylinder. surely its possible?

    a water cooled head cus i got a lil baby radiator and water pumps can be made easily.

    more tuned pipes of various rpm.

    erm. its finished while writing this...

    PICT0326 (Large).jpg

    heh heh heh. i fore see detonation, a nasty peaky powerband, clutch slip when starting, and overheating :) it really wont like my pipe! guess i find out in a day or two.

    :freak: :leaving:

  2. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Any concerns about the cylinder head temperature with minimal cooling surfaces?
  3. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    That sure looks good with the angled fins, but I'm thinking that will restrict airflow and overheat... just my opinion. Everything great started out with someone's tinkering. As for the nikasil cylinder, I know Ford has had great success with it, and it has to wear better than that crappy plating the chinese use, probably better for the environment, too. I'll be first in line for one when you git er done!
  4. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    over heating? no idea. only just tapped the thread out and assembled it. gave it a blip down the road and it was screaming! top of cylinder seemed to get hotter than the head... then the carb came off :jester:

    very nice pattern left from the transfers. this is really calling for the clear plastic head and some smoke signals to determine whats really going on in there...

    starting was easier than contemplated. can still "kick" start it :) idles nice and smooth.

    time for the real test ride!

    cylinder lining technology is a strange area. rotors for example. german invention. they got to the point of hard chrome plating. which then required special seals. which led to chattering and chrome chipping. this spelled the demise of NSU... chrome plating can come off in big sheets. that happened with rotaries. i believe the nortons are prone to it to.

    but the japanese are never deterred by seemingly insurmountable obstacles! talking with a guy thats been developing a single rotor for aircraft, they take a whole new approach now (rx8)... high silicon/carbon alloy. cast it. rough machine to size. heat treat so that carbon and silicon precipitates to the inside of the cylinder (or epitrochoid if youre still in rotor land). the silicon combines with the carbon, forming silicon carbide, one of the hardest manmade materials around. these crystals of SiC are growing from the alloy itself. they cant fall off or be dislodged!

    the SiC is then diamond honed down to finish size. then its finely honed with a softer material to
    1, round of the sharp edges on the Sic crystals.
    2, relieve the crystal from the surrounding alloy.

    you get a microscopic surface that vaguely resembles the wild west. lots of "steppes" and "buttes" with valleys in between...

    you then end up with a permanent, indestructible, hard wearing surface that retains oil for lubrication! (mmmm, grand canyon full of oil...)

    and, in the case of rotors, can go back to plain steel seals without chattering :)

    unfortunately this requires casting new cylinders, and a pretty sexy heat treating facility. read induction furnace, on controlled cycle for roughly 48 hours... and some other specialised equipment.

    back to the head... looking through various sites, ive seen billet heads with what looks like less finning than i have here... oh well!

    personally id prefer some 100*100 flat bar instead of the round billet, but hey...whats on hand, whats on hand...
  5. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    stupid "whats on hand"

    i need more fins :(

    goes like a rocket :) until it heats up :eek:

    oh my.

    i melted an electrode :jester: ceramics dark? electrodes melted. cool :)

    changed plug and ignition :) maybe not a good thing? it definitely kills all bottom end :(

    could run the baby on diesel! cus i guess the 91 isnt too good for it either :jester:

    so. i guess i have to use a 6mm cutter and make more fins this time round.

    weeee! i shall be back:ack2:

    theres another approach still... make an insert for a standard head... got some 58mm billet too :)
    5-7HEAVEN likes this.
  6. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Only going by comparison between the difference in cooling surface area of your cylinder head and the CR Machine Manufacturing cylinder head, you will need a heck of a lot more cooling fins to be somewhere equivalent.
  7. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Active Member

    HeadsMess, you are a genius!

    I LOVE to see and hear of people making stuff like this.

    What's the compression?
  8. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    yeah once you make another with more fins then it will be good.
    keep in mind that the most important thing for cooling is the total surface area of the head that is exposed to air.
    since it is difficult to make a head with fins you could cheat and make it wider and longer for more fin area.
    or groove a finless head and slide sheets of aluminum into the grooves and then use a flame type welder to tac the "fins" in place. that way you can have many thin fins.
  9. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    it gets worse :)

    i was fighting conflicting requirements... i originally intended on using a 6mm cutter but went for an 8 cus it can cut deeper and faster... thats a large reduction in fins itself. youll see my drawing on your squish thread has twice the fin area of this... i should have stuck with that pattern :eek:

    i had no other material on hand. i have four pieces of this alloy. 75mmx32mm

    so. insert a standard head. just recess it to take a machined insert. theres always heat transfer issues using a join, no matter what. i dont like it. anything but a welded join is suspect in my mind.

    find a heavy duty heat sink. shame the one section i have here is 10mm too narrow. would be bewdiful :)

    do the fins with a parting tool, RC car style... not much height but id get a few in.

    finish this one...

    PICT0333 (Medium).JPG


    this reminds me i have to ring that b4$t4rd that promised me a metre of 600 channel iron to put my mill in! its filthy! i need coolant! then i can run these cutters harder!
  10. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    i think i worked the CR out to be 13.5..a tad high.
  11. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member


    firstly, i started up, idled for a few minutes, and didnt stop to check the excessive noise from the gears.

    PICT0342 (Medium).JPG

    suddenly bits went flying!

    anyway. my exclusive. my piece de resistance :)

    (brace yourselves)


    PICT0345 (Large).jpg

    note the use of the ngk b6Es cus i needed the 19mm thread and it was handy :)

    PICT0343 (Large).jpg

    yep. thats a radiator :)

    so. initial tests, at idle was, easy starting, and currently its thermosyphoning for circulation. a pump is in the works as we speak!

    the blip up the road showed excellent bottom end power, with only a slight raspiness due to a slightly rich mixture still. still revs out nice but :)

    the thermosyphon effect cant quite keep up with the demands of flow required at over half throttle. steam pressure popped my hose off. someone had to pedal 2km home :(

    ive just clamped the hoses, so ill give it another go in a minute. if it lasts 5km i might keep riding to the radiator shop and try finding a standard cap fitting so i can fill it, blow off excess pressure, and have an overflow tank... otherwise i give up for a while and do something productive.

    chose to avoid any squish band effect, just a hemispherical chamber, about 38 across by 8 deep. havent measured capacity yet. seems to work very well though.
    Fabian likes this.
  12. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    That's one sexy water cooled cylinder head and radiator system - Bravo, bravo.

    How do i click on your "thanks" button 127 times :devilish:
  13. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Can you now work on giving the cylinder the same treatment as well as machining up a lower end, complete with multi plate clutch.
  14. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    lol. i went for an extended blat. clamping the hoses does help circulation. no sign of self ignition at idle until after a good KM at WOT. can see the steam bubbling up to radiator... return hose stays cold in comparison. definitely working.

    next. pump and real radiator hoses.

    oh, and a clean up. the place is a mess.

    i just got a quote back from one laser cutters for my tuned pipes. at 200 for all the sections, 150 if i get 20 sets made, i can see why everyone says those guys are rip off artists. theres plenty others to try but!
  15. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    You may be able to do without a pump if you make the head inlet connection on the low front side of the head, and the outlet on the high rear side of the head (although more ideal would be to turn the cylinder around so that the high end is also the hot exhaust side).
    Years ago I made a solar water heater out of a salvaged water heater tank (inclined 20 degrees) with its inlet and outlet going to a homemade solar heat collector. no pump and it worked perfectly. hot water rises so that you can establish a natural circulation w/o a pump.
    in your case the water heated in the head will rise to the outlet tube, and the inlet tube will receive cooler water to replace it (from the radiator).
  16. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    yeah, i was contemplating sticking one of the fittings from the top just to sort of assist any convection, but obviously didnt. getting too close to the head bolts. just stuck the hoses to the back for now cus theres a small bridge between the hoses. meaning thats potentially the hottest spot. more than likely its less than a degree difference, so ill spin it around later on when i go to see how the chamber/pistons looking.

    also contemplated hoses on either side but ensuring complete circulation made me go for being on the same side. one port, with two channels back into one port, you cant be positive water is flowing through both sides. and if one side ever gets a steam bubble, it will "lock". that side will get hotter and hotter, head will warp, etc etc etc.

    nah, a pump isnt terribly hard. use a magnet, mount it down in the magneto case, and the magneto should drive it. saves needing seals then. doesnt need much flow/pressure, just a little bit more than the thermosiphon can achieve.

    or get really dodgy for five minutes and use a fuel pump tapped into the crankscase... saves machining anything :) be fine with water.

    the more height difference the more effective a thermosiphon is. this is almost on level :(
  17. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    the thermo siphon idea has got to go.

    i fiddled today. popped head off.

    combustion chamber was nice. not black, not sooty. the oil wiped off leaving a minor stain.

    so hooked up some 100psi hose. not heat rated so i expected failure before that...

    once again, nice long idle, just checking.

    oh, also fitted an elbow to the "hot" hose so it points up.

    first signs were promising. went for a ride. 14km later, perfect. the hoses were nice and firm with pressure, and there was no sign of leaking, or the steam bubbles from the outlet on extended blats.

    heat transfer from the radiator is stunning. the water is lukewarm coming out the bottom. need a thermometer. but head remains touchable for ten seconds...i got thick skin.

    now the strange thing, this is what popped the lousy low pressure line.

    i stopped at the shops for a coffee. 10-15 mins.

    you would assume the thermosiphon to still be circulating when its cooling down, yes?

    start up, go easy for the first km.

    full throttle, and a few km later, pop. there goes the "cold" hose, in exactly the same place as the last one.

    the head seems to get a lock in it. cant explain why. it just does, and once the steam pocket forms, it just blows the water back both ways.

    conclusion? i need a pump. theres no way around it.

    otherwise, running superb. the fairly high compression is giving it a nice kick, and taken most of the mid end nasties out of this pipe. and when it really starts winding out, oh my...

    i didnt like this pipe too much. now its growing on me.

    oh well! drawing board.
  18. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    where did you get the radiator?
  19. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    gaming computer. suits a standard pc fan.

    visited a mate today. guy that first got me on a lathe and welding and stuff.

    called me an idiot :jester:

    "a thermo siphon needs to be vented."

    so its now simplicity itself.

    a T piece has sorted it.

    and soon, just a lil overflow tank.

    take it for a 5 litre ride tomsa :)
  20. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    filthy muck!

    it rained today. there was little riding time.

    so i put my latest pipe together.

    firstly, whilst making the header connection, i just HAD TO take it for an unmuffled run, see how it goes with no exhaust at all.

    i was pretty impressed :) this head is doing a lot more for increasing power than the dodgy standard one. then again, it may have been an inconclusive test cus the header is slightly tapered too. not a true straight parallel stub exhaust. but, wow. it pulled up the local hill almost as well as when piped. almost. it did tend to fourstroke at certain points then, weee, off it went again :)

    i also had to take a few pics...


    PICT0359 (Large).jpg

    a view inside the exhaust port...whilst idling :) not too good for the lens, apparently. all oily now :( it maynt be too clear, but notice that i port match my headers and shape the pipe to suit. pedantic fellas may like to use a dremel and take out the slight differences due to casting...

    um, a pipe on a bench...

    PICT0377 (Large).jpg

    a pipe on a bike...

    PICT0379 (Large).jpg

    and, lastly...nice narrow profile. while they dont get hot enough to burn legs anyway, the tighter the better, me thinks :)
    vertically, its in line with the clutch cover (when the things held in place and not just sitting like it is here...)

    PICT0386 (Large).jpg

    just attach a stinger and some header springs, and off she goes :)

    this one still is not perfect.

    the shapes JUST about right, but i accidently based it on 24mm header pipe instead of the true 22mm. meaning that its not QUITE right still.

    i definitely have the basic layout sorted now. i can make a paper template up in an hour or two, the metal takes a day still cus im hand cutting still.

    anyway, two stage taper, fairly low taper, spread the band out a bit and reduce the peakiness at the designed rpm.

    8000 rpm.

    think it worked in at around 760mm total, from 24 to 56mm over 470mm back to 12mm on the sting.

    testers tomsa!