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the state of the chinese engine market...let's talk.

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gone_fishin

Guest
when i found this motorized bicycle thing, like all of you, i was so enthralled i didn't care where they came from or how i got it. still don't sort of...

but we sure have had ourselves a closer look at the folks who make, import, and sell the kits and engines to us. for the most part, i am not liking what i see.

i won't rehash the lies we've all encountered and learned how to avoid. let's talk about what's happening this very minute:

don grube has been in contact. he's imparted to me some very interesting information about the new gearboxes...he told me differences about sources/makers, and he told me some important information about the technical pluses and minuses of the various options available to us right now. included in his letter are a coupla "digs" at other makers and sellers & we know that's not the MBc way. also...he stated in his letter that i could publish the information only if i posted the letter in it's entirety, ending with the threat that my failure to comply with his wishes would jeapordize our future relations. hmmm...i explained to don that at MBc positive promotion of one's own character and not smearing the other guy is the accepted way to address members of this consumer's group. i declined to publish. you guys don't like it? then contact don and let him know you're not too happy knowing he's holding back to try to control MBc.

jacky lee has joined the forum, claiming to be a rep with a maker based in china. all good, eh? well, it could be...except that when i privately asked jacky lee, as MBc admin, for some qualifying information about himself and his company, i got the same ol runaround. i asked who referred him, he lied, it's confirmed. i asked him for links to sites that offer his products at a retail level...he hasn't come across with that info yet. questions about tech details (from dealers in canada & the US) recieve the response “yes, quality is good”.

china sure is having a hard time getting anything right these days, babies have died because something is amiss with our (USA) trade arrangement with china.

i've had it...i'm tired of the lying liars. i don't know yet what i'm going to be doing differently, personally or as MBc admin, but i know something is going to be changing in my motoredbiking life, and soon.
 


D

dbigkahunna

Guest
When I first started researching these little jewels I considered the HTCBM but because of my size and reading the post and extensive searching across the web I decided I wanted a simple reliable motor. The HTCBM's require some mechanical ability to install and maintain, which I am able to do, just not modivated. So I have settled for one of the 2 stroke "Weedeater" engine powered drives (scrubbe/friction) The companies I have found that make them are domestic, use commonly available parts, and seem to be quite reilable. Also I hae talked to two people who market plans for motored bikes and both have been energetic about their designs and quite helpful. While thee are some who honstly market the HTCBM, ther is a lot of hype to sell the kit to "SAVE YOU FROM THE HIGH PRICE OF GASOLINE" and overstate the size power and fuel economy of the HTBM's. So I am going to stick with my own brand of equipment and support the people and suppliers who are wanting to promote this sport/hobby.
 
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npk1977

Guest
i explained to don that at MBc positive promotion of one's own character and not smearing the other guy is the accepted way to address members of this consumer's group. i declined to publish. you guys don't like it? then contact don and let him know you're not too happy knowing he's holding back to try to control MBc.
All - I'm going to write two responses to two separate issues. First Response:

Let's assume that it's tacky to write letters that attack the reputations of other vendors. His letter should be published on MBc. This is a public forum. We all can decide for *ourselves* if we want to deal with Don or not.

The beauty is that other vendors can respond in kind. Perhaps, in the interest of fairness, you email other vendors before posting the letter, and ask them to respond, so that the first three or four topics of the thread include all responses. My guess is that most vendors won't feel the need to respond, as often, silence is the best response to the ramblings of a madman.

That being said, it would be terrible if this board became a bunch of vendors yelling at each other. So you offer them a *one time* response to the letter, and let Don air his opinions.

NOTE: I make these statements, obviously, without having read the letter. It may be the case that the letter is *so bad*, it is not worth sharing with the public. In that case, ignore this post :)
 
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npk1977

Guest
china sure is having a hard time getting anything right these days, babies have died because something is amiss with our (USA) trade arrangement with china.
Second issue raised is a moral issue that involves international relations and (I add) environmental issues. I don't have a fully formulated opinion, so I'm just thinking out loud:

Let me enumerate all the possible moral issues one could have with buying motors: (1) China is a bad trading partner, (2) there are environmental impacts of two stroke motors, (3) motoredbikes could be *unsafe* and may cause physical or mental damages

So, I'm going to try to translate every positive/negative of a MB to a dollar amount:

Solving any of problems (1)-(3) is very easy to do in this country. It just costs a lot more than the $500 it takes to put together a motor bike. For the sake of argument, let's say a motored bicycle costs $500, and a decent quality Japanese scooter + safety equipment costs $1500. Is a motored bike's impact more than $1000?

I have no idea :) These bikes have taught me a lot about small motors. I've had a lot of fun with my bike. etc.. All these positive things probably add up to a positive impact of $500. So now the question: Is a motored bike's impact more than $1500?

Still don't know. And I don't even know how to draw this thread to a conclusion :) So let me close with a final thought: My intuitive answer is that the positives/negatives of a motored bike sort of equal the positives/negatives of a moped.
 
G

gone_fishin

Guest
npk1977

part 1: firstly, i'm asked a lot to post something for someone who isn't a member..."say what?" anyway, i've tried to nurture consumer/seller relationships with anyone i run across...ask the few who appreciate it and respect my stance if this isn't so. in that capacity, i do feel secure in sharing what i learn because the folks are aware of who i am and what i "represent" (i say that loosely, of course)...don's letter was not fashioned in such a manner, he was testing the waters to serve whatever his agenda is. i told him i would publish the letter if i could remove the "warning" (how dare he "warn" me?!)...i said the other information would be very helpful and i would be willing to pass it on. he returned with:
From: Don Grube
To: augidog@motoredbikes.com
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 4:20 PM
Subject: Re: another facet of our relationship (on the record)


No need to remove last sentence as that insures to all that you complied to our wishes. Thanks;

Cheers;

Don
i had no choice but to respond thusly:
From: Augie D.
To: Don Grube
Cc: Tom Noonan
Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:32 PM
Subject: Re: another facet of our relationship (on the record)


hello don.

i'm afraid i'll be declining to publish your letter. however, i do regret that this will mean the loss of some important information for the consumer. i have two suggestions...

1- a)allow me to publish the explaination of the differences between the gearboxes, citing a source who chose to remain unamed but wished to be helpful.
b)have someone from birddog clarify on their site.

2- you yourself may register and post the letter. please keep in mind that, altho we welcome supplier-participation, there are rules that address sellers discussing other sellers or their products. "selling" is only allowed thru positive promotion of character. peruse the board to see this is so, only consumers are allowed to wax negative on MBc.

after all, don, we are a consumer's group. we're trying to be fair. it doesn't always work, but it is never because of poor ethics on our part.

at the moment, i think the most fair thing for me to do would be to let you choose.

peace,
aug

tom and i discussed this, we agreed that because of wording, this could become an issue of "rules of journalism" and MBc could find itself on the carpet. i have no choice but to sit on good(?) technical information because don seems to be using it as bait. that was my final email to him on the matter...needless to say, he hasn't responded.

part 2 after i read your part 2.
 
G

gone_fishin

Guest
part 2: thank you for keeping it "economic"...that was the basis for my assertions...neat post, but i had to cross my eyes before i could catch up with your math :rolleyes:

I LOVE THE HAPPY-TIME ENGINE!
everything good i've ever said about it here i mean with a bursting heart, i love the lil buzzers that much.

there.

i'm getting tired of the industry's desire to remain rogue in nature, which is starting to seem the norm in china's markets.

did that help?
 
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npk1977

Guest
Augi -- In regards to the letter, I see what you're saying.

I applaud you for refraining from distributing the useful information in his letter. And it's sad to see an important vendor in our small community behaving in a distasteful manner. My experience with Don + suppliers has been subpar so far, and now, I'll try to never order from them again.

It seems strange that vendors don't like to post too much information about what they're selling. Clean, informative websites, published by vendors, are the #1 way (in my book) to generate business. Alas.
 
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