ocscully
Member
8-speed freewheels & Staton Hub
I am the person who PM'd oldpete and irratated him by pointing out that I felt he was passing on bad information about 8-speed freewheels. He responded to me in both a PM and with the post above. Despite his corrective notes posted above I still believe he his passing along bad information. Back in the middle 90's when I was building wheels for my customers that used 8-speed freewheels we never had a problem with a single 8-speed freewheel. Where the problem arose with this combination was with the hub axle. When you extended the spacing on the right side of the hub so the freewheel would clear the chainstay it was more than the traditional 10mm axles could handle and the axles would bend under heavy use. Pete states that Sheldon Brown says on his website that there was some kind of a design problem with the freewheels to do with the outside cog being to far from the ratcheting mech. I went to the Sheldon Brown website and did not find anything that was even close to the statment that pete attributed to Sheldon, about a design flaw with 8-speed freewheels. I'm not saying that the statement isn't there, just that I could not find it. Perhaps pete could provide us with a link to the page. What I did find at the Sheldon Brown pages on freewheels were several mentions of the fact that 8-speed freewheels weren't recommended due to the problem of "bent/broken axles"
Another bit of inaccurate information that Pete continues to put out has to do with the Staton-Inc Heavy Duty Rear Hub and weather or not it builds up as a Dishless rear wheel. Let me be very clear here, IT DOES NOT! Lets look at he hub in question, http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2770 For a hub to build into a wheel that is dishless the center point of the hub (the point on the hub where the center plane of the bicycle would pass thru the hub) has to be equal distance to the hub flanges. All you need do is look at the photo at the link above to see that this is not the case for this hub. I originally pointed this out to the forum back at the end of August in a thread called Breaking Spoke Blues
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=6497&page=4
pete got irratated then too but when I responded he backed off a bit and ony continued to say that he built his wheel using the same length spokes on both sides. When building a wheel the wheel builder needs to know or have at hand several mearurements of both the hub and rim he he/she is using to calculate the proper spoke length. The measurements needed are as follows 1) # of spokes 2) ERD external rim diameter in mm 3) Hub Flange Dia. left 4) Center of Hub to Flange left 5) Hub Flange Dia. right 6) Center of Hub to Flange right 7) Spoke hole dia. & finally 8) # of Cross
Lets compare two hubs: The Staton HD and the Shimano 525 Disc that that is also discussed in this thread.
Staton Hub: Flange dia. 52mm
C to F Left 38mm
C to F Right 19mm
Shimano 525 Disc: Flange dia. 45mm
C to F Left 37mm
C to F Right 24.7mm
If you run these numbers thru any spoke calculator of your choice with your choice of rim (no spoke hole offset) any # of cross you choose you will get a spoke lengh difference of 2mm +- a tenth of a mm. Could you build either of these with spokes of equal length both sides YES you could SHOULD you build either of these with spokes of equal lengh both sides NO. Not if what you are looking to acheieve is the strongest wheel possible. Now pete will probably respond the the folks at Staton-Inc build their wheels with spokes of one length and this would in fact be a true statment, they do build their wheels with one length spoke. I say thay would be providing a much better wheel if they did not. And what I find really curious back On July 19th of this year oldpete indicated that he too built his wheel with spokes of 2mm different length. http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=5155
I think I have said enough on this matter people here can make their own informed decisions
ocscully
I am the person who PM'd oldpete and irratated him by pointing out that I felt he was passing on bad information about 8-speed freewheels. He responded to me in both a PM and with the post above. Despite his corrective notes posted above I still believe he his passing along bad information. Back in the middle 90's when I was building wheels for my customers that used 8-speed freewheels we never had a problem with a single 8-speed freewheel. Where the problem arose with this combination was with the hub axle. When you extended the spacing on the right side of the hub so the freewheel would clear the chainstay it was more than the traditional 10mm axles could handle and the axles would bend under heavy use. Pete states that Sheldon Brown says on his website that there was some kind of a design problem with the freewheels to do with the outside cog being to far from the ratcheting mech. I went to the Sheldon Brown website and did not find anything that was even close to the statment that pete attributed to Sheldon, about a design flaw with 8-speed freewheels. I'm not saying that the statement isn't there, just that I could not find it. Perhaps pete could provide us with a link to the page. What I did find at the Sheldon Brown pages on freewheels were several mentions of the fact that 8-speed freewheels weren't recommended due to the problem of "bent/broken axles"
Another bit of inaccurate information that Pete continues to put out has to do with the Staton-Inc Heavy Duty Rear Hub and weather or not it builds up as a Dishless rear wheel. Let me be very clear here, IT DOES NOT! Lets look at he hub in question, http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2770 For a hub to build into a wheel that is dishless the center point of the hub (the point on the hub where the center plane of the bicycle would pass thru the hub) has to be equal distance to the hub flanges. All you need do is look at the photo at the link above to see that this is not the case for this hub. I originally pointed this out to the forum back at the end of August in a thread called Breaking Spoke Blues
http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=6497&page=4
pete got irratated then too but when I responded he backed off a bit and ony continued to say that he built his wheel using the same length spokes on both sides. When building a wheel the wheel builder needs to know or have at hand several mearurements of both the hub and rim he he/she is using to calculate the proper spoke length. The measurements needed are as follows 1) # of spokes 2) ERD external rim diameter in mm 3) Hub Flange Dia. left 4) Center of Hub to Flange left 5) Hub Flange Dia. right 6) Center of Hub to Flange right 7) Spoke hole dia. & finally 8) # of Cross
Lets compare two hubs: The Staton HD and the Shimano 525 Disc that that is also discussed in this thread.
Staton Hub: Flange dia. 52mm
C to F Left 38mm
C to F Right 19mm
Shimano 525 Disc: Flange dia. 45mm
C to F Left 37mm
C to F Right 24.7mm
If you run these numbers thru any spoke calculator of your choice with your choice of rim (no spoke hole offset) any # of cross you choose you will get a spoke lengh difference of 2mm +- a tenth of a mm. Could you build either of these with spokes of equal length both sides YES you could SHOULD you build either of these with spokes of equal lengh both sides NO. Not if what you are looking to acheieve is the strongest wheel possible. Now pete will probably respond the the folks at Staton-Inc build their wheels with spokes of one length and this would in fact be a true statment, they do build their wheels with one length spoke. I say thay would be providing a much better wheel if they did not. And what I find really curious back On July 19th of this year oldpete indicated that he too built his wheel with spokes of 2mm different length. http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=5155
I think I have said enough on this matter people here can make their own informed decisions
ocscully
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