What A Horrible Misalignment!

Discussion in 'Whizzer Motorized Bicycles' started by Hal the Elder, Dec 29, 2008.

  1. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Look at the poor alignment between my engine pulley and my clutch pulley...it's half the belt-width off!

    The clutch is angled inward by that amount. Loosening or tightening the belt tension pivot arm bolt has no effect.

    Was this bike run over by an Abrams Main Battle Tank before I bought it?

    No wonder Oscar can't run in a straight line on the road!


    Attached Files:

  2. Kep1a

    Kep1a Guest

    Yup all of mine were the same identical amount off but the other way if I'm seeing things correctly in your picture. Yours should be a simple shim fix if your clutch is straight.

    Once all the bugs are worked out I'm told they are very reliable and fun. I'm not there yet though. I have 3 of them I'm working on and every one has issues that are similar but somehow different in many instances. One I don't own I just help him upgrade and repair it.

    There is a light at the end of that tunnel I've been told by a few who have gotten there already.

  3. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Hal, I have a similar problem with Baxter, but his clutch pulley is only around 1/8" to 3/16" out of alignment. It's on my winter "to do" list.
  4. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    This is like walkin' down the street...

    ...on the side of your shoe!

    And here it is with a brand new Goodyear AX-27 belt installed!

    (Also have a new Goodyear AX-62 on the rear.)

  5. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Hey now! I walk on the sides of my shoes (because I walk like a duck). I have bad ankles as a result. Get those pulleys aligned before Oscar gets that way too!
    :whistling: :stuart: :biggrin: :banana: :laugh4: :smilielol5: :clown:
  6. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    OK...I'm Waitin' For The "How-To" From Quenton Or Mike!

    The misalignment is not just a simple parallel offset which can be corrected with a shim......it's an ANGLE offset!

    The clutch is pointing INWARD as can be seen by the straightedge!

    Last edited: Dec 29, 2008
  7. mabman

    mabman Member

    How about realizing that you bought a chinese replica of an American machine that is based on a 30+ year old design? :whistling: Sure you paid money for it but that is between you and the person you bought it from, not the experts here that have become experts by fixing the problems that arise with these bikes on their own. They seem to be as generous with their time here as it allows them to be. I would suggest taking the bike in to the dealer you bought it from and see what they have to say.
  8. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Mabman:

    The first Whizzer offered as a complete motorbike, with engine already installed in a Schwinn frame, was introduced in 1948. It was called the "Pacemaker".

    It's a 60 year-old design, Mabman!

    The person I bought the bike from is a used car dealer, not a Whizzer dealer.

    This is why I confide in my friends on this Forum, who seem only too eager to help me!

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  9. KilroyCD

    KilroyCD Active Member

    Hal, clutch pulley alignment has always been a problem with the modern Whizzers. There are a number of ways to address it. My situation requires actually removing metal from the clutch arm (as my slip-clutch pulley rides too far outboard), yours is likely going to require Quenton or Motorbike Mike's expertise to rectify, but I'll also give it a quick shot.
    I can't tell by the photo that your clutch is actually angled inward from front to back. It appears as though the whole shootin' match is about 1/2" too far inboard. But it's your bike, and you obviously have the better view of it all. If it is angled, it sounds to me as though the clutch arm might have had the hole drilled at an angle, instead of square. If that's the case, either take it off and get a new one, or if you're feeling adventurous, drill out the original so it's straight and install a bushing.
  10. Quenton Guenther

    Quenton Guenther Motored Bikes Sponsor

    Hi Everyone, In late 1945 Whizzer motorbike company located in MI started production on the "H" motor. The motor was released as the 1946 "H" motor and had a V belt manual clutch. The clutch pulley was mounted on an arm, the arm was attached to the rear of the motor with a trunnion pin. The trunnion pin was PRESSED into the arm, then the trunnion pin was inserted into the rear of the motor and was a tight fit. The pulley was always straight, the arm was always a tight fit, and it worked perfectly. Later the company noticed some wear on high milage motorbikes and fitted an oil lite bushing at the rear of the motor case to make sure of a great fit.
    It would be in bad taste to tell you why the new company changed the design. Could it be made cheaper, you betcha. Instead of a quality fit it was discovered a stock bolt inserted into a loose hole in the arm and then pushed through a set of bushings at the rear of the motor would attach the arm. So any reference to a clutch sytem on the vintage Whizzer and the new edition version would be like comparing "apples" to "oranges". The arm on the vintage motor was a really good fit, and the arm on the new edition models are loose fitted and always run at an angle.
    For a while I considered having a special pin made to correct this problem, however it was going to cost approx. $20.00 per pin and had to be ordered in quanities of 100, so I decided against it. On all my personal Whizzers I machined a pin that PRESSED into the arm, and the O.D. was a tight fit in the bushings on the rear of the motor [no more play, loose fit, or angled pulley]. As long as a "off the shelf" bolt, and a hole too large in the arm is used it will never work as well as the vintage version does.
    Even if the arm, pin, and bushing fit correctly the arm is usually made wrong. The majority of the time some of the arm needs to be ground off the allow the belts to run straight from the flywheel to the clutch pulley.
    I will attach several pictures of the correct way to remove the play from the arm and also line the pulleys in a straight line.

    BTW Hal you have one of the clutches that the pins will come loose in the hub, the bearing race will be grooved by the needle bearings, and you won't like the results. I suggest you get it modified very soon to avoid major problems.

    If anyone wants more pictures of the clutch modifications email me direct at quincy163@yahoo.com

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 29, 2008
  11. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Quenton:

    Here's a shot of the pulley alignment without the belt: It's nearly perfect!

    With the belt on, then you have what's in my first picture, a large angular misalignment.

    Quenton...if I must have my clutch modified, will you do the job?

    Let's see...Clutch rebuild required, new Lifters required, new Belts installed, intake and exhaust restrictions removed, triple tree alignment cocked...whatever happened to the Whizzer that you could buy and begin riding without another thought?

    I'm almost sorry I bought this brand-new defective bike, which now has 100 miles on it.

    I paid $1150 for it, but would be willing to sell it for less before it becomes a money sponge. This bike is truly a "lemon", and is probably only good for parts, and I wouldn't even trust many of THEM!


    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  12. jbcruisin

    jbcruisin Member

    Don't give up Hal. I said before on the forum that I bought my 99 for $1000. & have another grand in it. But I love it. It runs great cruisin at over 50 mph. I still need to upgrade my rear wheel. I still have the bad hub.
    Stay with it. The end result is worth the work. There's a lot of good guys on the forum that will help you. Quenton is my mentor. Here is one of the many pics I took at his house. He's standing with some of his many Whizzers.
    Again Hal, don't give up on your Whizzer.

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  13. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    hi Hal
    have tried to stay off your threads since I truly do not know much regarding Whizzer's
    have noticed though
    many have spent much time with you
    so as to try and help you get on the road
    hoping that you will be able in time to work through the rough spots

    and ride that Whizzer MB THING
  14. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Jbcruizin'

    Quenton is MY Mentor too!

    And so are Motorbike Mike, Kilroy, and others including Yourself! All Good Guys, who graciously offer their advice, opinions, explanations, instructions, pictures, and encouragement!

    It's pretty sad when I'm told my auto clutch needs a rebuild after only 100 miles of LIGHT use, but Quenton should know! Also, I could never get that twisted triple-tree straightened out either, even after religiously following all the steps given by one of you Good Guys.

    Yeah...this bike is becoming a disgusting collection of Defective Foreign Parts, unlike that wonderful American-Made Whizzer Pacemaker that I rode 57 years ago!

    I remember about 40 years ago when a bunch of guys from work who built their own minibikes used to carve paths in the Coyote Hills of Fullerton on weekends. One of the guys let me use one of his minibikes, which had a flathead Briggs & Stratton engine with an auto clutch.

    Now THERE was an auto clutch!

    At just above idle, that sucker took hold with a snap and never slipped! I sure wish Oscar could do that!

    I'm so discouraged that today I called the used car dealer who sold me Oscar and asked him if he would let me trade it back for the Red Slip-Clutch model that was there when I bought Oscar.

    He told me he had sold it earlier.

    I guess I'll just try to sell the bike before it really starts costing me money!

    Happy New Year...
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  15. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Quenton:

    That first picture you posted is so up-close and expanded that I don't know what the heck I'm lookin' at!

    The other two pictures show a steel pin. Is this the pin that is press-fit in the engine case that the clutch arm pivots on?

    Last edited: Dec 30, 2008
  16. ren

    ren Guest

    Hi Hal, I've been following your Whizzer adventure from the very start. I bought my Whizzer a year and a half ago not knowing anything about them, just that I really liked the looks of them. I too had many of the same issues you are having and was luckly enough to stumble across this web site. With the help of many of the good guys here my Whizzer is performing great and is a joy to ride. Just a couple of things left to do and it should be "bullett proof". I'm so glad I stuck with it, really love this little motoredbike. Sorry to see you get discouraged. Maybe you'll have a change of heart in a couple of days.

    Good luck,

  17. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    Hi Hal

    this may sound silly -- but I will put it out there to you anyway

    can you possibly afford to buy a good quality friction drive setup ?
    Station friction with 1 1/4" drive wheel -- I think it's fairly flat where you are ?

    then you would have someTHING so as to get your RIDE ON
    it would be ready to ride -- at all times

    and then when you feel like tinkering
    you would also have your Whizzer
    which once you get all of the kinks worked out
    should be a fair ride -- most of the time

    I think that you are just lacking from some good motor bike riding time

    just a thought as I head out to ride that THING this morning
    I think that's what you want to be able to do also Hal
    ride that THING -- right now
    I or we -- don't blame you...
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  18. srdavo

    srdavo Active Member

    I agree with the MM, except when the kinks are worked out, you'll have a very Fine ride!!

    Happy New Year!
  19. Hal the Elder

    Hal the Elder Member

    Hey Summit Person:

    I never did like those Mickey-Mouse friction drives! They seem like toys.

    There are some grades where I am...it's not all flat up here.

    Thanks for your input, MM.

    Last edited: Dec 31, 2008
  20. Kep1a

    Kep1a Guest

    I must say that wile you are having issues you are not too far from having a bullet proof Whizzer. As far as the clutch goes I think you would call what Qenton does to it more of an upgrade than a rebuild. The improved reliability and better shoe contact area is worth the price of admission. Those shoe pivot pins on certain clutch models can loosen up but Quenton can fix that too. Please read the stickies at the top of the Whizzer forum if you have not done so already.

    The instant lock up you want would make your Whizzer a dog and not allow you to have smooth take off and engagement from a stop. I would not want it to lock solid until I got some road speed a little RPM. It will lock sooner and sooner as it breaks in too. I notice a huge difference on mine as it has almost broken in at about 500 miles. I can take off and reduce the throttle at low speed and it will lock and stay locked at about 2000 to 2300 rpm. Roll the throttle to wide open and it will slip a small amount until I get to about 2800 rpm where it fully locks up at speed. Before break in I had slip under load at all times below 3000 rpm.

    One factor you may be missing out on is the manufacturer support. Hal your dealer is an authorized dealer and you can get warranty through him. You can also call and register your bike directly with Whizzer. They will know the serial # and can tell you if you are the first owner. The clutch however I would just have Quenton do the upgrade for you.

    My personal experience with Whizzer warranty has been outstanding! They have provided replacement parts and done their best to try to make me happy. Dave @ Whizzer has been a huge help. They seem like great folks at Whizzer and for me, at least they have given me first class customer service. While their product may have some issues they do stand behind it. The NE5 is in fact a very good product with great potential. Once refinements and needed upgrades are done it is transformed into a fun and reliable one of a kind motored bike. IMHO

    Note also Hal, I have the 70mm clutch and I love it because even at 230# I can go up almost any grade without needing to pedal. They come in a 90mm, 70mm and a tree stump pulling 50mm. I love my 70mm and would not trade it for anything unless I lived where it was flat everywhere.

    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2008
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