When is a Honda engine not a Honda?

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by dougsr.874, Dec 10, 2009.

  1. dougsr.874

    dougsr.874 Active Member

    Today a mechanic, parts dealer, in business over 40 yrs. told me that a GXH50 Honda engine is actually a clone with a Honda label...He stated that a true Honda engine only uses a 2 letter prefix in their model numbers....If he is correct why is a Honda-Honda clone worth over a $130.00 more than a HS-Honda clone.??????? Comments please....

  2. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

  3. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    I am not a honda expert, but their model number scheme seems to be:

    First two letters are the engine family (GX, GC, GS) exception would be the iGX engines.

    Third letter (V or H) indicates horizontal or vertical shaft.

    Numbers represent the cylinder displacement.

    So a GXV160 is a 160cc vertical shaft GX series engine.

    GX is commercial
    GC is consumer
    GS is heavy duty consumer/light duty commercial use

    The "mini 4 strokes" do not have a H or V because they can be run in any position. Most Horizontal models don't have the "H" designation, but all vertical models have the "V" in the model.
  4. dougsr.874

    dougsr.874 Active Member

    Let me clarify this the best I know....the mechanic said the Honda GXH50 was built by Dihatsu with a Honda label stuck on it.
  5. give me vtec

    give me vtec Active Member

    dihatsu could be under contract from honda to manufacture the engines. Companies do that all the time... doesn't mean it isnt a honda.
  6. kerf

    kerf Guest

    When you think about it, it's not the brand name per se that determines quality but the specifications that a product is built to and the manufactures adherence to tolerance. We associate brands with certain characteristics, as well we should but the truth is that companies outsource products all the time, along with the specification that the "brand" requires. If I take a CNC machine in Wisconsin, with a unique program and clamp an aluminum billet in it, it will produce a machined product. Take an identical machine, program and billet only this time in Taiwan, I shouldn't be surprised that the results are the same.
  7. Mountainman

    Mountainman Active Member

    yes it appears that Honda has done the Sears Robuck THING

    take our specks out and show them to a few or many (( quality producing companies ))

    have them make the product for us and in this case for much less than in Japan

    hold them to some pretty darn high standards

    reputation is on the line
    as long as it is made to last
    everyTHING is fine
    because it has been long time proven
    Honda runs for a very long time..............................

  8. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Doesn't surprise me IF the Honda engines were built by Daihatsu....foreign & domestic parts mostly assembled in Japan.
    Tony from Rock Solid Engines is a casings fanatic & he said the GXH50 casings are all made in China,for final assembly in Japan.
    Specs are specs but nothing seems to be sacred when your in competition & cutting costs.
  9. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Daihatsu ain't so bad, they make pretty good s h i t - at least they're not being made by the manufacturers of the HT engines. (Fingers Crossed)
    Still, the Hondas I grew to love were made by Honda.
    ... Steve
  10. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Pretty much empty speculation until you confirm something from a verifiable source.
    Anybody can say anything (and usually do).
    Contact a Honda rep and ask them, contact info's on the web site.
  11. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    You are getting a scrambled version of what happened.

    Honda did have a *company copying the the GXH50 and the GX35. It was not authorized and they were dragged into court.

    The GXH50 is most certainly a Honda product, made by Honda.
    The serial numbers are what start with two letters, the model designation made be up to four.

    GXH50s were made both with black and red covers.

    The designations for the 50cc are both GXH and GXV to denote the postion they are intended to run.

    Yes there are clones of these engines out there, no GXH50 are not made by daihatsu.
    This information came directly from Honda.

    *Superior copied the GXH50 and GX35 along with copies of Komatsu/Zenoah RC230 and other engines.
    The irony of the GX35 copy is that they were selling the copy for $50 MORE than Honda was selling the original.They do not have Honda labels
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2009
  12. velosolex

    velosolex Member

    older hondas

    Read your reply, and hearing something about Hondas your grew up with brings me to ask you a question: What Honda models did you have in your area? I grew up in Panama and we had Honda C100, C105, C100, Z50 and many others. Of course, Honda engines were either pushrod or OHC units built to go for ever (maybe). These little GHX or whatever engines are 25% of what Honda used to make in materials alone. When you compare the old Honda engines against the HF 89cc and up to 100cc stuff one runs across, the old Z50 engines are still build twice as strong. Any opinons???

  13. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    There is a difference between the HS/50cc and the GX/Honda 50cc, for one the carbs are different, coil pickups wont interchange. I own both and in 2 years Ive never done squat to the honda except change oil and a new plug. You just get on it and it starts every time. The HS Im always needing to adjust the carb settings and it lacks just enough power vs the honda that you notice the difference when going up the same hill. Im a fan of both and am confident the HS will hold up over time and start easily. Im convinced the Honda is a superior product but being able to buy a HS for a 150$ says alot vs the honda. Depends on your needs or wants both are excellent engines for bicycles. QXA designates the gx50 with a 5/8in shaft, some have tapered shafts and 3/4in shafts.
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2010
  14. velosolex

    velosolex Member

    What sort of shaft does my Hs have? I've never removed the reduction gear box...perhaps I'm stuck with the box?

  15. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    HS has the straight 5/8 shaft and will work with most gear boxes vendors sell to go on bicycles. Always best to ask and double check before ordering. The honda comes in different configs depending on its application such as pump, gen, mixer etc.
  16. AussieSteve

    AussieSteve Active Member

    Hi Cris,
    I was talking about Honda motorcyle engines, not motorised bike engines.
    I had an XR75, an XL175, an Elsinore MT 250 (2-stroke) and a couple of CB750s, at various times. No complaints with any of them. Good reliable machines.

    ... Steve
  17. Size of output shaft

    Hello Darwin, well if I knew what box you have I could tell you what crankshaft end you have.

    IF you have a "Hoot" gear drive it is 15.1 and I can deal with that
    IF you have a Grube gear drive it is 5/8 with a slightly undersized keyway, I can deal with that.

    IF you have a 4g Grube it has a tapered end crank that I know about, but have not seen yet, no adapter available.

    If you have a chain-drive "hoot" you have a tapered crank I have not yet seen BUT, we are working in an adapter fro that one as soon as we get our hands on a "Sample" engine.

    I now have my RS EH035, so I can begin design on the adapter for it, and can shop them for production.

    I hope this helps you.