Whizzer ignition timing.

[RdKryton]

Hello all
I have been doing some reading about advancing the timing on a Whizzer. It has raised a few questions for me. I believe I can do the mod without much difficulty but I am wondering if it is really worth it? Do you gain enough performance to make it worth the time and effort? Does it help the top speed or bottom end torque? I hope Bill and Quenton chime in on this.
Thanks

Jim

 

[KilroyCD]

Hello all
I have been doing some reading about advancing the timing on a Whizzer. It has raised a few questions for me. I believe I can do the mod without much difficulty but I am wondering if it is really worth it? Do you gain enough performance to make it worth the time and effort? Does it help the top speed or bottom end torque? I hope Bill and Quenton chime in on this.
Thanks

Jim

Jim, your bike is already scary fast. Are you trying to keep up with Quenton's new engine?

 

[RdKryton]

You never know. lol Not really but if I can increase low end torque, I'm all for it.

Jim

 

[bill green]

Hi jim Ive never advanced my whizzers timing If its like mose 4cycle one lungers when you advance timing you get better top end and drop torq this is down to fuel octane,cam,and compression.so I think Im saying (I dont know).try asking Quention.... BILL I dont Know Green

 

[RdKryton]

LOL Thanks Bill
I have not read anything that says what the advantages are of advancing the timing. Maybe Quenton will offer some insight on this tomorrow.

Jim

 

[bill green]

JIm there is A post on the net about A guy around salem oregon that ign. adv.was part of his build. Bill Green

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Jim,
Everything you wanted to know about Whizzer ignition timing. First the article everyone is referring to was written by a friend of mine, Ron Dow [Texas]. Part of the motor was modified by Raceway Products in OR, and the balance by Ron Dow. The motor in question was an original WC-1, but never won any competition. Shortly after the article was written Ron contacted me to build a NE motor, and he said it was the fastest Whizzer [flat head] he had ever tested period. I watched this motor exceed 75 MPH on the "Roller Road" [speed dyno] at Metroplolis, IL several years ago [before they changed the "load" on the Dyno to slow the top speeds down by 10 MPH]. I have advanced the timing from 14 degrees [stock] to 41 degrees BTDC, and unless you have a lot of special changes to your motor the advanced timing will in fact degrade the power at lower RPMs. Another problem is how to advance the timing and still have fire, the flywheel must have a magnet in the correct position or the spark will drop. It is possible to move the trigger plate to 23 degrees BTDC without a major effort, but you won't notice much if any difference, because it is only 9 degrees advanced from stock. Remove the trigger plate, move plate counterclockwise 7/16" of an inch, drill a new hole in the flywheel and thread to 5 MM. If you exceed 7/16" the magnets aren't lined up correctly for maximum fire, and the motor may become impossible to start & idle. I made several special plates to mount the trigger in a different location and slotted the plate so that I could adjust it. And I made sure the magnets are in the right location in refference to the trigger. It is hard to tell [without a Dyno] if the timing change make much difference, however another friend of mine [Gerd Lowack] mounted 2 plates, and 2 trigger assemblies and has a switch to alternate between the two, and he says it makes a big difference, but his motor is modified to the max. His motor is bored [major], camshaft is cut & twisted to alter the center lines, special head, mikuni carburetor, copper head gasket .010" thick, and major port work.
If you want more information on this subject, just ask.
Have fun,
Quenton

 

[likemyspoiler]

When the thread started, I thought the question was about advancing cam timing a tooth. I have milled .070 from head, opened intake restrictor, ported exhaust & advanced cam timing a tooth. the top end power is down right great, however until I get to 10-15 mph it is gutless. I wouldn't have a problem with this, but when coming to a steep hill & can't keep speed up it is a problem. My question is, will I have more low end power if I set cam timing to spec? I even have the "crappy" aftermarket auto clutch that has a lower ratio. (the one quenton loves so much.lol.)Top speed however is just about 45mph. I just can't belive how much power I have in the upper rpm's compared to lower rpm's. I would like to get a happy medium, but I still want as much top speeds as possible. Somehow I would like both! Didn't mean to hijack thread, but thought it would be helpful to thread. Thanks, Dan

 

[go-rebels]

Hi Quenton,

Can you post a pic of the timing gears showing stock and one tooth counterclockwise? When You pull the timing cover off and pull the cam out of the cover, how do you know the original location (rotation) of the cam given all the differences between stamped dots and dashes?

Also, can you advance by TWO teeth or is 1) Low end torque is adversely affected, and 2) Does Pickup need to be moved as you described below?

Stock = 14 BTDC
One Tooth = 23 BTDC (no pickup movement needed)
Two Teeth = 32 BTDC (???)
Three Teeth = 41 BTDC (Big modifications required!)

Hi Jim,
Everything you wanted to know about Whizzer ignition timing. First the article everyone is referring to was written by a friend of mine, Ron Dow [Texas]. Part of the motor was modified by Raceway Products in OR, and the balance by Ron Dow. The motor in question was an original WC-1, but never won any competition. Shortly after the article was written Ron contacted me to build a NE motor, and he said it was the fastest Whizzer [flat head] he had ever tested period. I watched this motor exceed 75 MPH on the "Roller Road" [speed dyno] at Metroplolis, IL several years ago [before they changed the "load" on the Dyno to slow the top speeds down by 10 MPH]. I have advanced the timing from 14 degrees [stock] to 41 degrees BTDC, and unless you have a lot of special changes to your motor the advanced timing will in fact degrade the power at lower RPMs. Another problem is how to advance the timing and still have fire, the flywheel must have a magnet in the correct position or the spark will drop. It is possible to move the trigger plate to 23 degrees BTDC without a major effort, but you won't notice much if any difference, because it is only 9 degrees advanced from stock. Remove the trigger plate, move plate counterclockwise 7/16" of an inch, drill a new hole in the flywheel and thread to 5 MM. If you exceed 7/16" the magnets aren't lined up correctly for maximum fire, and the motor may become impossible to start & idle. I made several special plates to mount the trigger in a different location and slotted the plate so that I could adjust it. And I made sure the magnets are in the right location in refference to the trigger. It is hard to tell [without a Dyno] if the timing change make much difference, however another friend of mine [Gerd Lowack] mounted 2 plates, and 2 trigger assemblies and has a switch to alternate between the two, and he says it makes a big difference, but his motor is modified to the max. His motor is bored [major], camshaft is cut & twisted to alter the center lines, special head, mikuni carburetor, copper head gasket .010" thick, and major port work.
If you want more information on this subject, just ask.
Have fun,
Quenton

 

[RdKryton]

I know this is an old thread but it has new life so I will share the results of my testing. Let me start by describing my engine and the mods that have been done.
2000 WC-1 upgraded to NE5
Hi-Lift cam advanced 1 tooth.
Head milled .070 and reworked by Quenton.
Cylinder decked and valves recut and liquid tested.
Minor porting work.
26mm carb with a 110 main jet.
Aluminum intake spacer modified to 1/2 thick, polished and tapered for the 26mm carb.
Hi-Flow exhaust insert.
The engine ran very well with the timing in the stock position. 14 degrees BTDC.
I did the timing mod moving the timing to 23 degrees BTDC.
It did not take away from the low end at all. I actually gained power all through the rpm range. The largest gain observed by me was mid range and top end. I now pull hills gaining speed when before it would just hold or slowly loose speed. The bottom end did gain a little more grunt but the best gains are from 2500rpms and higher. The modest timing advance is a mod that is easily done and if you don't like the results it is just as easy to undo. I believe I got such good results with this mod is because the engine has many other mods.
Good luck.

Jim