Will Grubee 4-stroke Kit Fit Cadillac Fleetwood Cruiser Bike with NuVinci Shifting?

Discussion in 'Frame Mounted Engines' started by NMCruiser, Jun 14, 2008.

  1. NMCruiser

    NMCruiser New Member


    I have a Grubee 4-stroke kit and a Honda GXH50 engine I would like to install on a Cadillac Fleetwood Cruiser Bike that comes with a NuVinci hub. I realize I would need to fabricate a jack shaft, but would the Grubee 4-stroke kit fit in this 18.5 inch frame?

    Here is a URL to the bike:

    I can only find this bike online, so I cannot measure the frame. This looks like a great project assuming the engine will fit. I would appreciate any feedback on the bike/kit combination. Thanks.

  2. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    I would say that the answer is yes. The Honda motors fit in the Schwinn cantiliever frames and they are 18.5 in frames. The also fit in the Felt frames though on these the fit is tight. Looking at the photo in the link you provided I believe there is plenty of room for the motor. working out the jackshaft might be a bit of a challenge but I'm sure it can all be made to work. Do you have the ability to do the fabracation work yourself? One other area that you need to address is does your kit have the one piece crankset or the three piece crankset? The bike you have chosen needs the three piece crankset.

    Last edited: Jun 14, 2008
  3. NMCruiser

    NMCruiser New Member

    ocscully, I have mechanical experience working with cars, 4WDs, and diesels and I have a good friend that owns wire feed and arc welders. Is the hardest part of the jack shaft aligning everything up correctly? From what I've read on the forum, I would need a free wheeling pedal crank. Do you agree?

  4. NMCruiser

    NMCruiser New Member


    Sorry, I missed the question about the pedal crank. I have the wide pedal crank that came with the SkyHawk II kit I bought from bicycle-engines. Is that a 3 piece crank?

  5. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    To the best of my knowledge bicycle-engines.com sold their kits with one piece cranksets. They are the ones that are generally used on beach cruisers and inexpensive dept. store bikes. They did not even offer the 3piece cranksets as an option because they didn't import any of them. bicycle-engines.com is currently out of kits and is saying 6-8 weeks till they get a new shipment. I know they had several customers that were asking for 3-piece cranksets and they didn't have them to sell, so maybe this time they will have ordered some 3-piece cranksets. It might be worth a phone call to find out for sure if they have some coming in.

    As for needing a freewheeling crankset? yes thats one way of approching/achieving a solution. I don't have any experience with setting up a drive train with freewheeling front sprockets but there are threads here that address this type of set up. Use the search feature and look for a thread called eliminating the driven sprocket The member who posted it is GhostO He and his partner have put together a jackshaft and freewheeling crankset that works with the Happy Time 2-strokes and are exploring doing the same type of thing for Honda & Clone 4-strokes. The need for the extra wide crankset is causing some problems that still need to be worked out I believe.

    Also you should spend some time looking at the information and parts available from Staton-Inc for the NuVinchi hub. I believe that with some of the parts they offer you would not need to have freewheeling front sprockets.

  6. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    THAT is an AWESOME looking bike. I like the nuvinci concept incorportated into it. Wonder if it can be ordered with 12 ga spokes.
  7. NMCruiser

    NMCruiser New Member

    I also found the bike at CostCo for $480. This seems like a great price considering the Nuvinci hub. Here is the URL:

    I am not sure about the spokes, but for this price I am going to order one for my next project. It will take a while to figure out the jack shaft unless Ghost0 comes up with a 4-stroke jack shaft soon. I cannot find a manufacturer's website for this bike to get more details than the URL at the top of this thread.
  8. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    WOW, Just WOW, hundred and 20 off the price. That's amazing. Makes me want to get one like RIGHT NOW! Only I really should have 12 ga spokes, not 14.
  9. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Do you realize that you can only use the NV for pedaling the bike?.The engine drive is FIXED gear,unless you get a special NV hub from Staton, which has an extra input sprocket for you motor drive.
  10. MacTac

    MacTac New Member

    Staton does NOT sell a "special" NuVinci hub! They sell a sprocket welded to an adapter that allows a freewheel to be used as a second input. In fact that adapter is on all NuVinci hubs from the factory. The NuVinci hub needs a freewheel added to it, (most come with this freewheel from the factory). Staton welds their machined sprocket (fixed) to a similar adapter and places the freewheel at the engine, and also uses the freewheel for pedal input.

    Yes, they sell this "fixed" sprocket welded to the adapter separate.

  11. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    As far as I am concerned the hub + adapter+ extra sprocket is a special hub,the adapter+freewheel is a basic part of the hub,we can quibble as to what constitutes a "hub".In accepted bicycle parlance a hub is the complete functional assembly including sprockets& freewheels.By that standard the NV hub+ extra sprocket is a special hub,normal hubs are NOT equiped in this fashion that's why I called it a "special" hub,because that's what it is.
  12. MacTac

    MacTac New Member

    The NuVinci Hub comes from the factory with a freewheel adapter, which makes it a complete unit ready to install and use. Staton has designed a way to have 2 inputs,,,,,IF, you add their adapter. Does this added adapter make it a "special" hub? NO. It makes it a NuVinci hub with a Staton adapter. This would be akin to saying that when you add a Kings Custom Sprocket to your rear hub, it is now a "Special" hub. I don't think so.

    Get real, there is no harm if being told you are wrong. There are people here and out there too that will think they have to buy a complete hub from Staton to achieve the same effect as just buying a sprocket welded to an adapter and installing it on their hub (which they might already own).

    I personally have installed 4 (four) NuVinci hubs in custom applications. One was a GXH50 with NuVinci kit from Staton.

    Misleading information, peddled by the unknowing.

    HA HA HA HA,,,, I Smell Smoke. And its trying to BLOW!
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2008
  13. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    It's all a question as to what is a "hub" and what does "special" stand for, multispeed internal gear hubs are sold as complete units ready to install,so is the NV hub,adapter and all.As far as I know you don't order a separate adapter.
    In normal usage "Special",means nonstandard,the dual sprocket Staton NV hub is such a creature in my opinion,the same thing applies to your Custom Kings hub with an extra sprocket.It is also possible that there are "standard" Specials.(common ones that is)In final analysis it all boils down to definitions and accepted usage.
  14. MacTac

    MacTac New Member

    "In normal usage "Special",means nonstandard" ,,,"It is also possible that there are "standard" Specials."

    Now if that’s not two stepping and double speak, I don’t know what is! :-|

    "it all boils down to definitions"

    Sounds like something Bill Clinton’s legal team would say. :rolleyes:

    THE only thing special about the Staton NuVinci hub is this,


    And its still, :arrow: Misleading information, peddled by the unknowing.

    More smoke coming soon???

    Apologies to the OP for going off topic
    Last edited: Jun 19, 2008
  15. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    So defining "special" as nonstandard is "double talk"?,just what would your definition be?.I worked in industry for many years,we frequently supplied modified equipment on customer demand,and when there turned out to considerable demand for a particular version,this was termed a "standard special".Again that was not double talk,it had a well defined meaning to our sales people.Double talk for your edification, means to intentionally confuse the issue, to purposely mislead.
  16. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    That's nearly a great bike except it has no front brake, no suspension and no specs to tell you much. I think you need the measurements to be certain a Honda would fit in the frame. As for a jack shaft I think a good designer could fit one in at the rear of the seat tube but it would probably have to attach to both the seat stays because the jack shaft really needs to be attached in two places. The cadillac's seat stays don't reach the seat tube which makes it a difficult configuration to weld jack shaft supports to.
    it's a big project but I reckon it's possible. Clive, a MBc member from West Australia, builds his own frames and jack shafts - see attached pics - but jackshafts take up space and designing it to fit is the important thing.
    I hope you get it all to work cos it's a fascinating concept. The first frame-mounted 4-stroke with Nuvinci hub. I'll bet Clive would know a lot about how to solve this - you could try sending him a PM and asking.

    Attached Files:

  17. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Let's check of this setup is practcal from a transmission point of view, Staton will sell you a freewheel that has the extra 27T sprocket for the drive from the engine which replaces the original one.The engine turns ccw so the output has to be on the left and a jackshaft is necessary.
    As to the overall reduction required at 6000 rpm, with a 25:1 reduction the max/min speeds will be 34/9.6 mph (26" wheel), with a 20:1 we get 42.5/12 and with 30:1 28/8 mph.FOI the range of the NV is 3.5:1.The best ratio depends on the terrain with steep hills 30 might be best,in the flatlands you could prob get away with 20.It is will be difficult to achieve even a 20: 1 reduction unless extremely small sprockets are used and Staton can supply freewheels with larger than 27T motor input sprockets Let's do the math,with 10 T sprockets,the product of the sprocket count on the large sprockets in the chaindrive has to be 2000 (2000/100 = 20). With a rearwheel sprocket of 27T, a jackshaft sprocket of 2000/27=74T is required, that looks impractical to me.For the same size sprockets you end up with 45T each,I don't know if you can shoehorn that on the jack shaft and I doubt that Staton will accommodate you either.With 8T size sprockets (do those exist?). we end up with 36T sprockets.for an ovarall reduction of 20.25,just in the ballparkOriginally the Staton NV hub came equipped with 36 T sprockets so maybe you can still get those.36T may be doable,I don't know about the 8T sprockets though.Does anyone have anything to contribute on this subject?
  18. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    How does the 3.7:1 the Grubee gearbox has fit into this? After all, that is what this thread started out about.
  19. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    That would help but probably not enough, without some extra reduction. Without a jack shaft the reduction would be 3.7* 27/11 (27t NV and 11t gearbox sprocket),which is 9.1 ,to get to a reduction of 20 we need another 2.2 (or more) reduction which would not be hard to come by. For instance 11 t to 24t(from the gearbox to the jack shaft) and then 11t to 27t (from jack shaft to NV at the rear wheel),works out to 2.18.These two sprockets would have to be mounted adjacent to one another on the right side. So from a power transmission perspective,no sweat,even larger reductions may be feasible.How all this works out spacewise is another matter entirely,I haven't a clue.
  20. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    For good measure I have reviewed the torque loading of the NV hub.The Honda engine has a max. torque of 2Nm and the hub is rated at 130 this would meean a max. reduction of 65,assuming no pedal torque input,assuming 50% pedal input (pessimistic),we still have considerable margin(20 versus 32.5 reduction),so a reduction to 30:1 would still be pretty safe.It would be wise to install the Staton torque bars (a pain in the ****).This bike may have horizontal drop outs,check if they will fit!.