Your energy density in the universe

Discussion in 'Off Topic' started by Fabian, May 23, 2010.

  1. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    I refuse to believe we are the only life form in the universe and i'm sure an atheist would agree, but even the most ardent atheist would have a moment of soul searching reflection after watching this video; asking of their place in the greater scheme of things.

    The concept of the big bang theory: energy arising out of nothing, doesn't cut it with my feeble logic and never will.

    Someone, help me out as to the bigger questions - why are we here, what is our greater purpose, how were we designed and why are we designed as we are; where is all the other life that we should have in our galaxy and why are we not in contact with it.

    Watching the video in full screen mode is better, even though it's low quality video.
    Please enjoy.

    Last edited: May 23, 2010

  2. Pablo

    Pablo Motored Bikes Sponsor

    We are
  3. GearNut

    GearNut Active Member

    I am mostly carbon, with alot of water and some minerals sprinkled in for good luck.
  4. metal

    metal New Member

    As an Atheist, I must disagree with one of your statements. The big bang model does not state that we were created from nothing. Quite the opposite actually, as the singularity that the big bang came from actually had infinite mass and energy. On the contrary, creationists believe that a deity created life, and everything else, from nothing. Not trying to start a religious debate, I just wanted to correct that aspect. It's actually a very common misunderstanding, just like a lot of people seem to believe that Atheists and evolutionists believe we came from monkeys (we don't believe that). Thanks for the video though, that's neat stuff.
  5. metal

    metal New Member

    And as for my opinion on life out there, the requirements for a planet to harbor life as we know it are extremely extremely narrow. With that being said, just the sheer size and amount of matter in the universe would leave me to believe that there is at least one other planet out there that has a life form on it that's at least slightly evolved. I'm not saying walking green men, but I think it's reasonable to believe there's at least some algae or a roach somewhere. Now extremely simple life forms (i.e., amino acids) I do believe live somewhere out there. They can adapt to live **** near anywhere, so I think there's some little amino acids living on random planets somewhere.
  6. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Amino acids are not life forms. They are, at most, building blocks toward the assembly of a life form.. Not too mention, they are ubiquitous, being present in many nebulae and readily detected by spectroscopy.

    Life is amazingly tenacious and adaptable, being found in environments here on earth that are WELL outside what anyone might consider the "norms" or the limits for life to survive and prosper in. That being known to be true, I think it highly likely that life is much more widespread than common expectations might lead one to suppose. Our failure to find life with our probes is indicative more of the fact that we have sampled such a tiny, miniscule fraction of our own neighborhood than of the absence of life.

    I'll give you my views:

    Why are we here? Because we evolved here. The purpose of life is simple - it is living.

    What is our greater purpose? There is none. Purpose implies volition and design. Life is what it is as the end result of perhaps 3.5 billion years of accidents occurring to innumerable organisms of varying degrees of complexity. Given that depth of time, nothing here today is a surprise.

    How & why were we "designed"? We weren't. We are merely the end products of evolutionary processes that favored those mutations that conveyed some small advantage to the organism, and the pure randomness of events that can (and repeatedly did) render extinct evolutionary forms that had been quite successful until some catastrophic event occurred.

    Where is all the other life in our galaxy? Simple - it is, like ourselves, fitted into its evolutionary niches, which may or may not have given rise to that which we call "consciousness" and "intelligence". The apparent limitations of the physical rules of existence in our universe are such that it seems likely that journeying between stellar systems is enormously difficult, time-consuming, and energetically expensive.

    Nevertheless, there are (currently theoretical) technological means to achieve that end, and the day may come when we as a species can and do achieve it. What will we find? The only way to know it to go and see - the only absolute certainty in such a process is that, regardless of your preparation and forecasting and speculation, that which will be found is ALIEN, and will embody surprises.

    Why are we not in contact with alien life? Well, first, see the facts alluded to above. Second, who says "we" are not already in contact? Not that I think it likely, but if some alien species had sufficiently advanced technology to enable visitation of our stellar system, might they not quite prudently be extremely wary of the violent ape infestation so prevalent hereabouts?
  7. professor

    professor Active Member

    Fabian, I am delighted that you are asking the right questions.

    I asked those very same ones in my early 20s.

    We all know the standard answers from the so- called scientific establishment, but we see purpose all around us, yet we are told by them- we (the epitomy of intelligent life) have no purpose.
    Something is rotten in Denmark.

    Imagine you find yourself in a stragetic game where the rules are not handed to you. You must deduct the rules yourself.
    this is the position we are all in.

    I looked at the myrad religions and views of life and concluded: ONE of them is the truth and all the rest are lies and shades of lies.
    Like a mosiac on a broad floor- One is the truth.
    Keep thinking and looking.
  8. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Hi Simple Simon.


    I appreciate your answer but certainly struggle with the concept of random evolution of evolvement to conciousness.
    I for one do not see myself as a random event and the tax office, police traffic infringements office and utilities companies do not see me as a random event, considering their ever renewing concern that i'm able to make conscious decisions to limit my exposure to their taxation methods.

    This idea has always given concern about the less than reasonable or plausible chance that we have evolved to significant intelligence, creativity and paired reproductivity.
    Think of this logic path: take cats as an out of the air example.
    A male and female cat had to have the correct conditions to evolve their DNA and structure, starting their evolution at approx the same time and independently of knowing each other, developing separate sexual reproductive capacity based around male and female variation of their kind, yet not knowing each other, and then being able to locate each other in amongst all the other developing life forms and work out the best method of mating, incubating, birthing and rearing their young, which is far more energy intensive in a dog eat dog environment of survival of the fittest where asexual reproduction would be the most logical form of reproduction.
    Another thing: there cannot be any disruption to identical evolution of the time line of reproductive development as if it so happens, which would be beyond doubt, the two genders would be at a different stages of development and be either too juvenile or advanced for the other gender to be able to reproduce.

    Sorry, but the whole logic of randomly arising life forms with a sequence of life giving events does not and never has clicked with my analysis of life as we know it.
    By my feeble logic, we humans have little, make that no possibility of arising by chance.

    Can you simply explain away my logic S.S. and if you can, there are a multitude of questions i have for you to answer that may be somewhat difficult for evolutionary science to explain.
    Please realise that i'm not religious in any way. My views are simply that of the laws of chance that give vastly greater odds of success to predictable decay of random organisation, should evolving organisation happen to occur.

    How many times have you predictably won the lottery, yet to get to an organised level of biological functionality, the organism must win the lottery on a daily basis, against far greater odds than any lottery in existance.

    The only thing i see in the world is devolution.

    Last edited: May 26, 2010
  9. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    To each his own opinion.

    I must say, however, that your chosen example and reasoning therefrom is entirely specious and in error. Speciation and sexual bimorphism are two entirely different matters, separate and distinct, in that the progenitors of modern felines were themselves sexually differentiated but they WERE NOT cats. Females and males of the same (or related) species are not, evolutionarily speaking, separate lines of development. Given that mammalian speciation occurs as a gradual process of accumulating differences (usually, not always), you are looking at thousands of generations for a truly separate species to arise - all born of the females of that species.

    Your grasp of the nature of evolution is clearly deficient, as is your grasp of the true depths of time in which it has occurred, and is occuring. This is a motorized bicycle forum, not an undergraduate seminar on evolution, so I'll stop here.

    You are welcome to your views, and I'll stick with my understanding of the process and the nature of life. In my opinion, there is no "purpose", and there most certainly is no "designer".

    I would suggest that, if you are truly interested, you undertake a course of study of the nature of evolutionary theory, the evolution of that theory, and the true nature of "randomness" "(which has no direction by definition, and may occur is any fashion permitted by physical law).

    The purpose of life is living, the origins of species are environmentally driven, and nothing more is required.