zbox 4 stroke==what do the 4strokers think of this kit??

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by djase10, Jul 26, 2008.

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  1. djase10

    djase10 Guest

    Hi all
    Ive been into the 2stroke thing for a couple of years now,
    and wanted to dabble with 4strokes,
    due to availability & MOSTLY COST, i havnt..

    now ZBOX has a kit at $450 +$20p&h..=Z50C---- 142F-1-G

    I'm "SORT OF" tempted.

    The kit has NO GEAR BOX included..

    what do the experienced 4 strokers think of this PARTICULAR KIT??

    I know that some of our American members may have seen this kit in the times before the GRUBEE gearbox became mainstream..

    I can sense a "series 2 " version of the kit within 6 months.

    I dont want to jump the gunn, but if the unit is solid -with no issues i just may..

    What are the thoughts of my fellow members on this?


    Regards jase

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 26, 2008

  2. No Gearbox???

    Hi well I'd love to see one installed because the gear ratio will NOT work from a 10tooth at the engine to the 44-56 at the rear.

    The engines are far better than the 2-stroke, the questions are in the gearbox/drivetrain.

  3. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Even though you don't see it featured in the photo I believe there is a Hoot gear box included with this kit. I believe it is mounted to the engine in the photo used to illustrate the kit. It just dosen't make any sense that it dosen't have one. If you look closely at the photo just below the Carb & air Cleaner I thik you are looking at the back side of said gearbox. Use the link above and study the photo of the engine installed on the bike below the engine specs. Even though it's in a heavy shadow you can just make out the driver sprocket on the gear box. This kit does include the Hoot Gear Box.

    Last edited: Jul 27, 2008
  4. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    Yep, seems like a typical Hoot kit.
  5. djase10

    djase10 Guest

    Two more 4stroke kits for Australia

    Thanks ocscully, HoughMade

    Yep NOW i see it -in the shadow, A HOOt gearbox yeah...

    Wow the AFFORDABLE 4stroke kits are coming out the woodwork!!

    2 more kits for Australia=
    =1 includes a freewheel rear hub-- (in Melbourne) he also sells NE5 whizzer.

    the 2nd (direct from china) =FREE POSTAGE
    includes the WHOLE back wheel with a FREE-wheel hub INSTALLED!!

    3rd picture is the gearbox of the chinese seller (is this the HOOT box?)

    I still welcome the comments from the 4strokers about -
    these kits
    the hoot gearbox
    & the free-wheel hub


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    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 27, 2008
  6. Unhappy Time

    Unhappy Time New Member

    are "Hoot" gearboxes reliable?
  7. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    The first thing I notice about the two kits shown here is the kit in photo #2 has an adjustable motor mount (adjustable for length) like the GRUBEE kits but this mount appears to be all steel rather than the aluminum ends that the GRUBEE mount comes with. The Freewheeling rear hub I believe is generally a good thing, but I've read in threads here that you need to be able to get 12g spokes minimum to build them into a wheel. The spoke holes in the hub flanges are quite large and the heads of 14g spokes slip right thru them.

    The Hoot Gear Box has given members here some problems the keys seem to be a substandard grade and shear off? This seems like a pretty easy fix, by purchasing a better quality key at the local hardware store or lawnmower repair shop. The Clutch bells have come apart on a couple of members kits as well. But alot of these kits have been sold and folks seem to be happy with them and if its whats readily available give it a shot.

  8. vyzhion

    vyzhion Guest

    Yes the final pic is a hoot gearbox. I had bad luck with those last year. I believe they have redesigned it with crosscut gears that is supposed to be better than the original release that I had. I like the idea of the kit coming with a freewheeling rear hub or wheel automatically. I wish we could get those here in the US. If the Grubee gearbox isn't available, definitely get one with a freewheel on it. Mine was solid state and any time the wheel moved, the gears were also moving. It seems like all of the kits have the hoot gearbox so I would go with one that has a freewheel.
  9. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Don't think they are offering the freewheel rear hub. The Hoot GB can't take a freewheel drive sprocket even if you had one because there isn't room to fit it. The tray won't fit any cruiser I like - too short to span the distance but the engine can take a Grubee GB so now all the motors have the same shafts and keys. Gearbox has no gasket and the oil inlet hole is so small you need a syringe to fill it. The 3 piece cranks are a big problem with kiddy length crankshafts so pedalling is seriously hard. Also you need a $60 converter to fit the Euro bb on a Schwinn cruiser but 3 piece cranks aren't just a problem with this kit cos they are offered with most kits now, Engines are great and a freewheel rear hub would be a great optional extra as would a decent sized engine tray - preferably adjustable.
    Kill switches, chains, fuel cocks etc. well they are just the pits in all kits these days but you can usually replace these with decent ones from stores.
  10. jimraysr

    jimraysr Member

    Irish, what is the center to center demension of the "kiddy" cranks? I got a three piece set of cranks (actually just the two cranks and the sprocket) and they were the same length (about 6"?) as the OEM on my Schwinn Searcher.

  11. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Grubee \HS from Aus has drawback

    Jim the kiddies 3 piece kit cranks are 200mm apart at the axle and 252 mm apart between the pedals - that's the internal dims. The length of each crank is 5 & 1/2" or 138mm.
    Those kits being talked about above are a great step forward but be aware that the one from MBB Imports offers a HuaSheng that has a cable operated choke so for absolutely no logical reason you will have another lever on your handlebars when you are desperately trying to get rid of levers. A choke cable adjuster & holder is attached to a stainless steel plate that bolts on top of the valve rocker cover which looks quite good except it adds to the motor's height which is something we don't want in an already very tight space. Why the motors are like this is beyond be. I only found out when it arrived and it is not shown on the website. I sort of think these might be a batch of rear mounts chucked in with frame mount kits. People need to know this because it is a big handicap for anyone wanting to frame mount a whopper stopper kit. I am beginning to think I can pinch the plate off the HS and use it to rig up a potentially great throttle solution for using on the Honda.
    The Honda throttle is a real pain and has no spring return like the H\S.
    The Aussie Hoot kit I also have sitting in front of me and the drawbacks have been noted elsewhere with photos of the absolutely terrible shaft key which has been forced into the clutch keyway with a steam drop hammer. It's a dog's breakfast of a job but is fixable. The Hoot tray is also a dog's breakfast and won't fit any cruiser I know of in Australia. It is non-adjustable and the holding studs are welded onto the tray so I can't replace them with Aussie steel ones. I will cut them off and use cup head bolts or something but the angle of the tray ends prevents the studs being fed through a hole so I'll cut 6mm wide slots and slide the bolts down with an extra steel plate to strengthen the ends of the tray. It will be a long boring job but totally necessary cos the welded chinese studs will break on the first bump I am willing to bet.
    The problems with the two kits mentioned above are quite serious but the Hoot engine with the Grubee kit would solve all of these issues cos the hoot has the standard HS with lever choke and the Grubee has an adjustable tray.
    The whole situation is just ridiculous and it is costing me serious money to resolve things that should not be happening. Oh yes, for the time being be warned that the dual brake levers offered with the abovementioned Grubee kit from Aus are too flimsy to use and are the sort of thing that retails for 50 cents in a $2 shop except nobody else in Aus stocks them. There are good quality dual brakes on Mongoose BMX bikes in Oz but not sure yet if it's sold as aftermarket part. The lever is a silly shape but that can be replaced with a lever off the old HT kits. Hope this helps somone cos it's been expensive for me to find out and also very depressing.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2008
  12. jimraysr

    jimraysr Member

    John I guess they grow cranks bigger Down Under? My stock cranks were 6" (153mm) center to center and the three piece is the same. The bottom bracket on the Schwinn is 1 1/2" (37mm) so the one piece cranks won't fit, and the bearing set is 2" (51mm). The three piece is about 9 1/2" (241mm) between peddles which will just clear the Honda wt. the GruBee transmission.

    Actually my engine sets above the crank circle. The spindle holds the cranks 4 1/2" (114mm) apart. So from your figures there are more than one three piece crank set out there? Mine are retained by a bolt in the end of the spindle. One dealer mentioned that the 3 piece sets he had seen used the old fashion wedge pin retainers.

    The GruBee kit I received came with a compression spring for both the throttle and the engage clutch cable. The clutch and brake levers seem to be close to the OEM ones they replaced. When rummaging through a bike shops hardware box I found some neat hardware. I needed two cable clamps for the brakes. The Schwinn had pencil eraser ends and the GruBee kit lever needed plain ends wt. cable clamps. There were two cable to one cable adapters in the box. They were for BMX bikes. Each was a little different, but did the same thing. Allowed a single lever to operate two cables and provide adjustments for each cable. Nice solution for someone.

    I flipped the derailer rotary shifter over to the left side and other than being upside down it works fine.

    The basic thing is it is difficult to shoehorn the Honda into a frame, but the confidence I have in Honda engines makes it worth the effort.

    I had to do a lot of grinding on the front aluminum block to get it to drop low enough in the frame for the Honda to fit Then drilled new 6mm holes in the block and used high strength bolts to clamp a 2" muffler clamp on to the down tube.

    Had to slide the Honda forward and drill holes through the steel plate and the aluminum block. All seems solid.

    The Honda choke sticks up quite a bit and was above the top tube bottom wt. the two cables running under it. I cut the lever off and drilled and tapped the plastic shaft for a 4mm X 25mm bolt. the end points at the icons and the head acts as a handle. Final alignment moved the engine far enough to the left (Are left and right reversed in AU like Summer and Winter? 8O) =) that it wouldn't have required the choke to be modified, but it is handier to operate with the mod.

    My oldest camping 600 watt generator is 30 years old and still starts on one pull. I have two other Hondas on a 2200 watt generator and a 11 HP on a pressure washer. So the weakness of the kits seem to be workable if the engine and transmission are solid.

    I will let you know in a year if I still believe that to be true. )

  13. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Jim, I think we have the same 3 pce crankset. The wedge pin in the axle is what is known as a Euro style and that's te problem with fitting in cruisers. The dimesions you gave are the same as mine but I don't measure the way you do. The effective length of the pedal cranks (centre of pedal hole to centre of crank shaft) is what counts cos that is the leverage length and that is 5.5" the crankshaft (axle) length is about 218mm which is the distance between the inside of each crank if you put the cranks on the axle facing the same direction. That is the effective clearance. at the ends of the crank the clearance widens to just over 250mm - inside of crank to inside of crank.
    I was giving the dimensions of the gap - i.e. the clearance.
    I would love to see pictures of how you fitted thatHonda motor and did the choke etc.
    Your kit supplier knows what he's selling and what it is needed for and mine doesn't so that explains the difference. As soon as the kits are back in stock I'll be ordering from the US again. Who was your supplier? Mine was MBB Imports from Sydney. He's a good guy but new to this game and should improve with time. Lastly, that Honda of mine - the black plastc was 1/4 the size of a Aus 5 cent piece and was hard plastic and we found it not near the cams but at the bottom of the crankcase. Maybe it wedged between the crank and the case but neither of us really believed it could have locked the motor so the case of the locked Honda remains perpetually open. When we split the motor the engine freed up but we never saw how the blockage occured the only evidence being the plastic floating at the bottom of the crankcase.
  14. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    And also, just to add to the problems of those 3 piece cranks, the crank won't allow for a Schwinn pedal cos Schwinn pedals are 1/2" and the crank hole is 9/16" so the pedal flops around in a bigger hole. All in all the 3 piece crankset is a piece of horse manure and has cost me dearly for the adaptor and for new decent quality 9/16" pedals. Am I to believe that people with Schwinn cruisers in the US don't also have this problem with the wide 3 pice cranksets?
  15. jimraysr

    jimraysr Member

    Really strange on the lockup. Like my Subaru clutch peddle that stuck down for a half a day (hydraulic) a week ago and the only thing I did was fill the reservoir, which wasn't really low. Has worked like a champ, since then, but I keep wondering if it will do it again? )

    The kit came from 5 Flags in Pensacola, FL, USA for $199 post paid.

    The engine from Small Engine Warehouse in Indians, USA $210 + 18 shipping

    3 piece crank arms only, Spooky Tooth, old 4 stroke inventory before being burned badly me thinks, in Bisbee or Ft. Huachuca, AZ, USA $22, + shipping.

    Extra GruBee Transmission, Spooky Tooth, $80 + shipping.

    Extra clutch, Birddog Distributing, MT, USA, $20 + $9 USPS flat rate.

    Extra 54 tooth driven sprocket, Birddog Distributing, MT, USA, $20 + $9 USPS Flat rate.

    I will post some pictures when everything is finished. Just need to solve the governor idle problem before I take it down to a very large church parking lot for sea trials. Rusty rider needs space and awareness of where the light poles are.


  16. jimraysr

    jimraysr Member

    pedal thread

    Did not measure the thread of the pedals, but the Schwinn pedals screwed righ in tight to the three piece wide cranks.

  17. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    That explains my suspicions - the importer in Sydney is using a cheap kit aimed at the European market and that explains many of the differences between the Grubee kits from Bozeman. Montana and those from Sydney.
    his price is just below the cost of buying from the US and air freighting so with a cheaper kit the margins are pretty high. Sure way to kill off a market but those Grubee importers are usually protected by sole agency rights. It sucks I reckon.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2008
  18. djase10

    djase10 Guest

    Great input guys, thanks..

    the Guy selling the kit with he wheel included has informed me
    that a GruBee gearbox can replace the HOOT for an extra $50..
    He sells just the grubee box for $140.
    I dont know what series the box is..

    Regards Jase
  19. Irish John

    Irish John Guest

    Jase, The guy a ZBox is called Warren & he's a good guy when it comes to helping people. These are his first Hoot kits & he doesn't know much about them. My opinion of them is that the HS motor is good as any HS and the Hoot GB is not as good as the Grubee but the Mark2 model that Warren offers is not bad at all. The drawbacks are these:
    The 44T sprocket is too large so top speed is greatly reduced but the 56T offered with the Grubee is also too large. The difference is that it won't take Warren long to offer the right sprocket whereas the Grubee guys just throw the 56T at you & tell you to lump it cos it comes with the kit.
    The 3 piece crank is a total load of bother for anyone with a Cruiser bottom bracket but OK for the MTB guys wanting to mount a cheap alternative to the 2-strokes.
    The pet cocks, tanks, chains, kill switches etc are the same Chinese junk that you get with all kits both 4-stroke & 2-stroke.
    I'll bet Warren gets one pice cranks and 36T & 38T sprockets before long and a few other extras to service his customers. Warren worries about the centrifugal clutches with the HS becausethe centrifugal clutches he onece had with the 2-strokes gave him problems. I think the centrifugal clutch is OK but this batch have keyways that are smaller than the keyway on the shaft but that just means they are difficult to remove cos they were forced on with a powerful tool to make them fit. I've refiled my keyway and remade the key so the clutch can be slid on by hand and pulled off more easily.
    Whether the Gb runs wet or with grease is a matter for discussion on these forums but I use lithium grease. The engine tray is not adjustable and the studs are welded on. I can't find a bike it fits and I'd want to drill out the studs and install Aussie bolts cos I don't want my fixings breajking.
    Warren was right about the motor taking the Grubee GB. All the shafts now have the same keyway and length so you can swap gearboxes. I prefer the grubee tray but there is a guy in Canberra making trays and his Mark 2 model might be OK. The Mark1 looks a bit like it needs modification.
    I have one of Warren's Hoot kits and I'm trying it out but still waiting for a bike that fits the tray. shouldn't be long. The good think about ZBox is they will try to get the stuff to make the kit good but the little bits & pieces nobody seems able to control - cos they are made in government owned factories where incentive to achieve excellence is not very good.
    What I like about ZBox is their ethic & attitude and they replace defective parts.
  20. djase10

    djase10 Guest

    Hi John,
    3 separate kits from 3 different sellers ( not including MMB)
    the first picture is the zbox kit,
    in my next post (on page 1) are two other kits,
    one person in Sydney
    the other located in canberra (rear wheel included in kit) thats the guy I was talking about.
    Here is the pic again- the seller is ozmotorisedbikes.
    (Yeah these cranks are a TAD short also by the looks)

    Yeah Warren has helped me immensely throughout my HT journey , he is a top bloke.

    my intention of this page was to gather info regarding the differences ,
    pros & cons of each kit, i thought it was clear that through my words and pictures that we're not just talking about zbox.

    The info gathered is great and super informative and has helped my decision big time.

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