ADVANCED or RETARD just checking please answer real quick??

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Diamond Back, Jul 24, 2016.

  1. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member

    if you hold the magneto side crankshaft still at the 1 o'clock position of the woodruff key and turn the magnet CCW (to the left) is that retarding the timing ???

    it should be cause that would be making it later for the pick up, just double checking brain fart,,, thank you for your help

    The key way on these magnets is very sloppy on some engines I have found out, Mine is a 09/09/2015 ( the year is stamped on your stator on the coils)) SKYHAWK GT5 w/ 38mm stroke piston and ZAE80 connecting rod.

    Because of the slop in key way some engines its been said that adjusting the magneto can make an engine a different animal and some peoples problems that seem unsolvable can be caused by this, worth a shot.

    Engines like some retard timing at high RPMs..
     

  2. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    I believe your brain is farting correctly.
     
  3. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member

    thank you furry,, any thoughts on which way you would slightly adjust,,, ADVANCED or RETARD ???? i made a notched woodruff key so i can go either way
     
  4. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    Well I guess you can try the key either way around and see which you prefer. :) But I thought you wanted to retard ignition and you just weren't sure which way around was right.
    I'm no expert, lol, I just read the forum.
    Jaguar describes this as "el cheapo" retardation. I would see it as a very blunt instrument.
    I am saving up for Jaguar's adjustable CDI which has other benefits besides a retardation that varies with rpm.
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2016
  5. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member


    yeah me too,,, i talk with him every night,,,great guy and smart,,,, but i want to get my stock setup right and in the correct position,,, that way i get the best from his CDI when i put it on,,,ya know
     
  6. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Look at this graph to see how the stock timing is too advanced. Retarding it benefits power throughout the powerband.
     
  7. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member


    JAG/Mike help me out here with some explaining,, I am not to good reading this graph I think..
    what I am seeing is that the stock CDI starts at 9 degrees retarded and curves to 33 retarded but only allowing RPM's to top out at 7,800.. is this the wall I keep hitting with my bike at 7,560 ??? It would make sense cause i believe my motor with the sloppy key way is all the way CW to the right,, That Grubee CDI line on the graph is exactly how my motor runs,,exactly..weird !!!

    it looks like you trying to mimic digital RM250 CDI.. you have a 0 degree on startup and retard as you rev to 3,500 rpms then you advance it so you can rev out to 10,000 RPM's,, so i take it that by retarding all the way cuts your power and RPM's short, but if you start to advance the curve at a certain rpm and back down on retard curve to where your now still retarded but advancing so you have less and less retard degrees your able to get the engine to rev out to a farther RPM (10,000)..

    what I dont get is what your adjustments are actually doing that are beneficent or helping,,,,
    JAG/MIKE,, I got some questions for you about this,,, you want to email me to finish this up ???privacy,, cant let all your tricks out the bag with this group of characters,,

    hey anybody ever see these spark plugs before and where do you get them from or any multi prong or rim fire plug from s-l500.jpg
     
  8. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    that charts shows degrees of advance firing, or how many degrees before TDC when the plug fires.
    the stock CDI doesn't stop working at 7800 rpm, it's just that's as far as I tested it, knowing that most people won't port their engines to rev high.
    With a 250cc engine it is beneficial to not let the engine rev out higher than about 9500 rpm because then the stress on the piston can make it crack. That's why the RM250 curve flattens out at the end. A small engine, on the other hand, can rev to 13,000 and not crack the small lightweight piston so there's no need for a rev limiter.
    My graph shows all at once the multiple timing curves you can get by adjusting the 3 in 1 switch on my CDI. In reality only one of those curves can be in effect at any one time.
     
  9. CrazyDan

    CrazyDan Member

    Not trying to hijack the thread but just curious if you can/have worked your magic on the newer hs 4 strokers with their rev limited cdi, would be nice to squeeze out some more speed without killing my hillclimbing ability.
     
  10. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member

     
  11. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    What I noticed was less vibration and higher RPM. Timing changes don't make big differences in power. 10% power change would be "big" but 10% of 2hp is only .2hp which few people would be able to feel that difference. It also makes the connecting rod bearings last longer. For complete info just read my pages on the subject.

    Dan I have a basic dislike for 4 strokes in general and so have no experience with their CDIs.
    I have always been a lover of motocross but now find the races kinda boring due to the fact that all the bikes are 4 strokes. Their smooth power delivery and heavier flywheels removed the beautiful wildness from motocross.
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2016
    Steve Best likes this.
  12. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Ignition timing doesn't affect power much at all. But it would give better power if the stock ignition causes a significant percentage of misfires.And a stronger spark is supposed to increase power. But like I said it would be near impossible to feel a difference of a few tenths of a horsepower.
    My first CDI wasn't adjustable but I added adjustability once I figured out how to do it. And after I created my CDI tester.
     
  13. Frankenstein

    Frankenstein Active Member

    I wonder if my last engine was suffering from this issue, I did switch to a different magnet by accident, could be it's just off a bit too much...
     
  14. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    I think there' a big variability between stock CDIs
     
  15. 2bike

    2bike New Member

    i wonder if that big variability extends to what this barely broke in gt80 does. Runs rich with primium, octane booster, miracle oil nudging 40 to 1
    valvoline 20/ 50 based on experimentd we did on a long list of fraumiliar brands some with teflon, others with micron whatever but we covered the bases and this stuff smoked all that fancy stuff right off the shelf.(last motor had no wear lip aanyhow: this cat stages at a stop sighn like a funny car or dragster sports car next door will not go ahead like he scared. was runnin a choped of stock muffler exactly where jaguar indentifies on his blog because summer called out my welder. i guess i would call it an expansion vortex because this is the only bike i have had that did not have a power band, it is all powerband off idle to readline screaming that fuelly roar. this china queen is alive. I think i got lucky with variability of cdi and who knows maybe i did just run the very first exansion vortex.thanks jaguar. welded up she wants the cap off and if idont when i could she lets me know pronto, foul a plug, be extra craby. i have fallen in love with another crazy one. maybe that cdi does alot of this wild stuff my last 2 were regular.p.s. jaguar
     
  16. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    the CDI has its part to play but the stock carb comes jetted too rich. You have to lower the needle all the way and buy a leaner main jet or solder and drill a smaller hole in the jet you have.
     
  17. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member

    ss15.JPG s5.JPG s4.JPG s6.JPG
     
  18. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Nice looking bike
     
  19. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member

    Thanks my good ole friend,, sorry i havent been around lately,,, have some sleep and strength issues lately,,, not good..

    i got the pipe welded today,, i still have to finalize it by drilling and tapping hole for pipe mount mid frame,, cant have that held on by just two bolts,, need to bend and cut stinger end pipe,, and i might have an issue with my right foot pedal just scrapping by a hair,,just a hair,,, I think another thick header gasket should solve issues,,, and i got the new handle bars on,,,pain in the ass but looks nice... dont know about the chrome pull up bars on end... looks like i have a set of ELK Antlers for steering....lol

    you want me to take a picture for you,,,,its a pain,, my camera computer connection is busted so i have to hold it a special way and one hand download with the other hand....lol...its funny, but works s9.JPG for know
     
  20. FurryOnTheInside

    FurryOnTheInside Active Member

    I like the bar ends, they add stealth by confusing the onlooker.. "It must be a bicycle coming towards me if it has bar ends!" ;)
    I like the air filter shielding fender too. Very simple yet must be effective. :)
     
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