Australian Motered Bike Laws

Discussion in 'Laws, Legislation & Emissions' started by AussieJester, Oct 17, 2009.

  1. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    It was bought too my attention week or so ago that there is no longer in
    any state in Australia a "claus" that states sub 49cc motored bicycles are legal! IIRC wasn't there once a 'line' in the states law that stated something along the lines that sub 49cc motored bicycles were legal? I initially stated to the peson i was discussing this with that i was sure there was a clause thatallowd the use of sub 49cc motors, i have since checked each of the Australian state laws and there is no longer mention of it ONLY the usually "This is provided the motor has a power output of less than 200 watts."
    I was also directed to argueably the largest seller of 49 and '80cc' motors here in OZ ZBox And was quite surprised to find they have now openly admitted that the 49cc motor is in excess of the legal limit! They have even tried detuning the 49cc and were only able to get it too 500watt on the dyno! 300watt above the legal limit. I guess this is to cover their assess, they never used to openly admit the motors were "illegal" and im suuuure i saw them state the 49cc was at one point?

    Here's what ZBox have to say about it anywayz-->

    In response to the recent concerns about the 200 watt power limit imposed on mopeds, we commissioned our factory to build a completely detuned Z48-3 engine and carburetor in an attempt to conform with the 200 watt maximum power output regulations.

    The results confirmed our beliefs that 200watts is unattainable and if it was, it will never power a motorised bike. Our new detuned engine gave a power reading on the dynometer of 500watts @ 29kph and barely had enough power to pull the skin off a custard and would struggle on the slightest hill or headwind.

    As a result of this futile exercise we can unequivocally state that 200 watts won't power a moped so it must be time to cut all the nonsense surrounding this issue and move towards sensible legislation that doesn't cause the unwarranted harassment of moped riders.

    Over the past four years this business has sold over 10,000 engine kits in Australia and those sales would be responsible for taking thousands of cars off our overcrowded roads and led to savings of tens of thousands of litres of precious fossil fuel not to mention the lower greenhouse gas emissions of mopeds.

    It is time to talk with your local member to get some common sense into the argument.

    Thought i would bring this to the members attention so they can start writing to their local member and start the push to get this pesky 200watt law raised...It wont be long before the Police will be aware of the law and start acting upon it rather than "turning a blind eye" as they often do now...If your caught they can confiscate your ride , charge you for riding an unregistered uninsured vehicle & riding without a license its a healthy fine and something that you can't defend in court...

    Best of luck


    p.s NOTE thats 200watt AT THE MOTORS CRANK SHAFT not after drive train losses i.e backwheel output i ckecked this with ZBox as i assume my good mate "safe" will chip in with his total power output rubbish..Dyno printout of the 'de-tuned' 49cc motor is viewable on ZBox website .

  2. mean lean

    mean lean Member

  3. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    You don't actually believe it is "200watt" though right? Only;y thing thats 200watt on that motor is the fake manufactures plate IMO Save yourself 375 bucks cut a small sqaure alloy plate nip down to the local engravers and get "200watt Maximum Output" engraved on it and some fake company in china along with an equally fake ID number be as genuine a "200watt" motor as they are offering for $375 :)

  4. mean lean

    mean lean Member

    Nah, think this is legit. he is local here in adelaide, he represented the rta meeting earlier
    this year, has his own dyno modified for the small motor output, It will be legal but not much fun to ride. I own one of his 70cc hp kits, great attention to detail. mate of mine installs rock solid kits, has a few customers waiting for these 200watt builds. ill let ya know.
  5. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    I would like to see independent dyno tests on it myself, if i was charged for riding it and took it too court only to find it its over 200watt i wouldnt be too happy...Do keep us informed other members will be very interested im sure, seeing ZBox were unable to have their manufacture get a 200watt 49cc motor produced i find it a little suss..

  6. Bernie

    Bernie Member

    Well done! The imbeciles running our states need a shake up! 200 watts is a joke! Who is bribing these people?
  7. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Jester - isn't this exactly what you wanted? Shouldn't you be celebrating? The elimination of ICE powered bikes in favor of "green" electrics? The only way to have electrics become more popular is to regulate the ICE out of existence, which your RTA has seemingly done - but left you electric guys with a 200 Watt power limit. (can you say Mattel Power Wheels?)

    When I fight for keeping MB's as unregulated as possible, I do so for both gas and electric. A government agency sees no difference between the two, they just see them as another thing that needs regulation in the name of public safety.
  8. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    Doesn't phase me either way arceeguy bere's about as much relavence to me as it does to you pal.. i do as i please there are very few Police where i live, the post was to make others aware so they might band together and have the law changed for themselves, i have never used a 200watt motor and never will i dont have the option to pedal assist and this is essential with a 200watt motor whether it be electric or ICE...I do have the option to use UNLIMITED power as my trike is used as a "mobility Scooter" there is no power limit on them just a speed limit and banned from road which again doesn't phase me i have a cycle path at the end of my driveway that takes me to all local shops pubs and taverns if i care to use it :) And as i have told you before but you seem unable to comprehend i am not using electric because its green get it through your head FFS.

  9. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Aussies - Note that he says "they" and not "we" here fellas.........

    Oh, that's right - I forgot that you prefer electric for its low cost, light weight, and long range. :whistling:
  10. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    yeeees as i dont use either a ICE motor or a legal 200watt and as stated couldn't give a **** either way I thought others here using one or either might ...your point?

    Obviously a red neck such as yourself has a hard time comprehending so i will outline it one more time for you, i use the electric for the torque/power it produces in lightweight form I have never once said i do it for the green aspect or because its cheap, I have more than once stated its not cheap and that I care little for the environmental benefits it offers but again you fail to comprehend this no matter how many times its told to you, keep up your super intellectual retorts they are mildly amusing and im sure someone of your intelligence gets a huge kick out of it :) motor and batteries will weigh less than your motor genius and have close to 9 HP Will have a good 50km per charge be capable of 0-50km in under 5 seconds all while doing it with no rand-da-da-dang sound that will get complaints from my neighbours. show me a 49cc china motor that has comparable performance of my current bike? I know your simply looking for an argument its what you do and im more than happy to oblige...Surely you can come up with a different angle though your whole "because its green" accusations is getting way old now. Well done at offering valuable information to the discussion once again though arceeguy you posts are always so informative and offer so much to the threads can't wait for your next superb offering please dont let us down...:whistling:

    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  11. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Sorry to get you all upset. I just saw your post about your new RTA rules and thougt it was funny considering how much you loathe gasoline engines. So your 9HP system that can go 50km and go 0-50km in 5 seconds weighs less than 18 lbs? That's pretty good. I have some brushless powered RC trucks that will smoke their nitro powered twins in acceleration and speed - but run time has always been poor and weight is an issue unless you buy some expensive LiPo or LiIon batteries. I suspect that your system uses some sort of Lithium batteries for storage, making it very expensive. Along with the motor and controller, what are you looking at a couple of thousand dollars? I can buy a 2 stroke kit for $120 bucks, throw it on a bike, fill it with petrol and ride for three times distance your electric system will run at a fraction of the cost. But I will lose in a drag race. Someday, when battery technology improves and becomes less expensive - electric power will become practical for personal transportation. But for now, it is just a curiosity for a few.

    Peace be with you my MB brother.
  12. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    ROFLMFAO...your funny..

    I don't loath gasoline engines i raced motorcross from the age of 6 through to my late teens on two stroke bikes along with owning high performance cars what does it take to get you to understand, simply explaining it too you doesn't seem to get through? **** i even built my brother a 49cc china gurl powered MTB i have displayed pictures on this site of it :confused:

    Yes...motor is about the weight of a full can of coke and lil smaller in size 44v 10ah Lipo is ~ same weight as a house brick

    Yes ~ 300 bucks for 44v 10ah Might want to check HobbyCity when you need batteries for your Trucks again.

    Not me but yeah you could spend that and more, i have been donated several high price items as a result of Endless Sphere Competition i was in, the ESC cost me nothing nor did the throttle. The motor was 150 dollars from a chap local that bought it and never used it, all up i have spend under a grand thus far.

    And i hope you enjoy it... As I don't need to travel more than 10km round trip i have no need for distance if i did I only need add more lipos to equal your range and it wouldnt cost anywhere as much as you think ...Might want to head over to Endless Sphere and drop the "just a curiosity for a few" theres a couple of thousand members there that would beg do differ. You would actually have alot of fun there its full of tofu eating tree hugging environmentalist VERY easy to get them riled up they despise anything ICE even cars funny as **** watching them go off, i often stir the pot to keep them going LoL Im very outspoken about electric cars and particularly electric motorcycle, i feel there is no need for motorcycles to be converted they are efficient enough and hella fast with the good tech is too expensive just look at the price tag of the Tesla has the performance but its woefully expensive. I agree with you when the higher tech batteries come down in price more will try it.

    Have a nice day

    Last edited: Oct 18, 2009
  13. Stink Bike

    Stink Bike Member

    I've have been riding motorised bikes for about 2 years and during this time the New South Wales law has always been that the motor is to be no more than 200 watts and has always been shown on the RTA web site.

    It seems that too many people are prepared to believe what some know it all tells them and then too lazy to look it up on the RTA web site to get the facts.

    I got pulled over by a cop last month in North Sydney for changing lanes without looking.He did even mention the motor and let me go without a ticket.
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
  14. safe

    safe Active Member

    AussieJester can be a rather "salty" charactor... his language and ability to quickly snap at people surprise a lot of people. He is what he is.

    From the Australian standpoint the laws there are very strict (200 watts) compared to America with it's 750 watts (and above in some areas) limit.

    The thing that people need to realize about AussieJester is that because he is disabled he gets a special "free pass" on motor limits because he gets to declare his machines as "mobility scooters".

    So while it's great that he's excited about high powered electric it's not necessarily anything that can be applied universally. (other people can't follow)

    Australia's law say 200 watts... not 2,000 watts... or 20,000 watts... :whistling:

    From my perspective the goal ought to be that Australia raise it's power limit to the 750 watt level we have here in America. That's realistic and creates a more universal standard. Above 750 watts and human power starts to become a small percentage of overall power. (typical human power is about 200 watts)
    Last edited: Oct 19, 2009
  15. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    Ever'body funny. Now you funny too.

    Whatever you claim you've done in the past doesn't really correspond to what you post here. Just sayin'..........

    Well if donations and second hand stuff counts, I just bought a 2005 Kawasaki Ninja 500R with less than 500 miles for 600 bucks. All I needed to do was clean out the fuel tank and cabs from sitting. I think it'll outperform your overpowered mobility scooter in acceleration and range. LOL

    A couple of thousand members on a specialty forum for e-vehicles proves my point that e-vehicles are just a curiosity.

    At least we agree that until battery technology improves, e-vehicles are not for the masses.

    Regards -
  16. mean lean

    mean lean Member

    mate received 200 Watt engines today, come with individual dyno graph read out. let ya know how they go.
  17. AussieJester

    AussieJester Member

    TBH i think the Lipos are pretty good now and the prices have come down
    considerably since i was flying lecky choppers 2 years ago..I would like to see a "safer" tech at a reasonable price with similar energy density though, Check out HobbyCity when you need new batteries for your RC trucks if you haven't already? must be one of the cheapest battery suppliers on the net, theres a dedicated thread on ES for the "TURNINGY" brand in particular, thus far VERY positive feedback...

    I really dont want to sound like a pessimist but IF it is truly a 200watt ICE nmotor it should be incrediably bad as far as performance, if it has comparable performance to the "standard" 49cc II would be seriously questioning the legitimacy of the dyno printout. If he can get past 25km/hr on a flat WITHOUT pedal assist its dodgey IMO...BUT...with the plate stating its 200watt i think you would have a legitimate case in court no?

    Wish you mate all the best be very interested to hear the outcome on this...

    Last edited: Oct 20, 2009
  18. customcruiser

    customcruiser Member

    yeaa "arceeguy" leave him the **** alone...

    i think why he uses electric is because the in frame motor needs pedal start or a pullstarter and even if it did because his legs are useless no offence "aussie jester" it would be even more illegal so electric is his choice and only option really as i dont think u can buy an ICE wheelchair everyone get off there rags jeeeez...............
  19. customcruiser

    customcruiser Member

    didnt realise there was a pge 2 until after i posted sorry
  20. Bernie

    Bernie Member

    I wonder if this seemingly new law includes the SACHS 30cc Moped available as a Sachsonette complete bike or Kit which may be fitted to a half decent pushbike. These were limited to 200W and would just barely pull back your old 4 skin (if you have one). Sachs motors are 500W Ex Factory but restricted to constipation in a number of countries, especially by regulating geniuses in Australia.

    I have one, a real beauty actually,the bike part was made in Gladstone in 1982 hardly ever used and seems to be an especially heavy build made just for this kit. Unfortunately its motor isn't running at the moment, but from what I've learned, owners in Europe LOVE 'em, especially when the restriction transistor in the CDI is hissed off, increasing revs from 3,800 RPM up to 7,000 Rpm.

    I like the range and convenience of the IC engine as opposed to electric. Old habits die hard I guess.

    For some Moped history:

    Near the end of WW2 my Father, a Lieutenant in the by then defeated WW2 German Army nicked one of these Mopeds in North Eastern Germany and rode it, mainly at nights, all the way down to the Rhineland to the house of his older brother. A huge journey of about 1,000Klms. He was deserting in front of the Russian front which was at the time for a serving officer in the Wehrmacht, a serious instant 'shot in ze back-of-ze-head', offense. By then (late 1944) he had seen Germany's defeat looming like a big neon Sign during his long retreat from Russia.

    He rode on the Autobahns at nights to avoid capture and found plenty of petrol (and oil) in strafed vehicles, often with the dead still in the vehicle and slept hidden in the woods during the day. The moped he used was a PUCH model with a friction drive over the (front?) wheel. He often told that tale. The home he nicked the bike from was completely empty, deserted, the owner was probably in Russia fighting the Red Army, poor ******* was already probably dead.

    Ces't la Vie.