boost bottle

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by mikeq55, Dec 1, 2013.

  1. mikeq55

    mikeq55 New Member

    after installing a boost bottle on a groubee 66cc what needs to be changed on the needle in the carb
     

  2. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    If I'm not mistaken you need to do a general re-tune.
     
  3. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    and then realise that a boost bottle doesn't do anything other than add weight to the bike.
     
  4. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    most of them do nothing because the transfer channel is too narrow for rapid transfer of pressure to/from the bottle
     
  5. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    I have an ADA Juicebox on my Tanaka PF4000, I thought they were just a small version of a boost bottle.It gives me a smoother/lower idle, smoother throughout throttle, higher RPM's, and a quieter intake.Though it came on a used engine, I'd buy another.
     
  6. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Gremlin, what is the inner diameter of the channel between the box and the intake manifold?
     
  7. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    http://www.adaracing.com/products/blhpck-bb40.jpg
    Couldn't tell you that.I know little about engines, or how this works, but can attest to the change in engine performance.It's not that you go any faster, but everything seems smoother/quieter/quicker.Every 2-stroke I've used from and old 76 YZ80 up to today had that "RINGGGGG----DING-----DING-nnnnnn-ding----nnn-ding" sound (how's that's for technical jargon!), the juice box took out the "DINK DING" on deceleration, this is important to the GEBE as every ding caused a slap in the belt which doesn't help belt life.
     
    Last edited: Dec 2, 2013
  8. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    they arent a performance enhancer, they simply "retune" the unideal manifold length versus port opening time, when circumstances prevent using the correct length manifold for that rpm...

    "fill in" the flatspots. sand back the high spots...smooth it all out. when installed correctly.

    (unless, in the few cases, where everything is tuned to peak at the same time for max power at one speed only)

    could see them as a cap in a filter circuit, could see them as a water hammer arrestor...


    what diameter bottle, what length, internal volume, length of connector, size of connector, exact spot that connector is inserted into manifold, port timing, manifold length, crankcase volume...


    hows about a telescopic inlet manifold? :jester:
     
  9. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    what i dont get is any of the bottles i've seen the position of the bottle intake is pointed towards the engine so obviously some fuel will fly into it! if its meant to catch blowback should it not be pointed the other way? think i might just try a homemade bottle using an old co2 cartridge what i'm wondering is does the size of the bottle really matter? if it smooths out the engine even a smidge i'd be happy!
     
  10. grinningremlin

    grinningremlin Active Member

    Make sure you have a fully tunable carb before you try it, I messed with trying to make an intake silencer and all it did was choke and foul the plug.
     
  11. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    its got nothing to do with catching excess fuel, its a "chamber" that holds the air fuel mix that otherwise would be spat back out the carby due to simple physics.

    if the air is allowed back through the carb...it picks up excess fuel, then lurks around in the aircleaner. then, that already overly rich mix is sucked back through the carb AGAIN, and given another dose of fuel!




    and whatever part of THAT air fuel mix doesnt make it into the engine...is spat back out, sucked back through... now it has FIVE times the required amount of fuel...
    there may be small pockets of air in there that NEVER get into the engine at all, but simply bounce back and forth until theyre replaced with nothing much else but fuel...

    thats half of the idea. keep the mixture consistent.

    its all to do with the fact that air has momentum, mass, weight, inertia...once it starts moving, it doesnt want to stop. piston port has closed...air slams against piston, goes nowhere, creates a "blockage" in the manifold that prevents any more air getting in, or, the air is now trying to escape the pipe, and when the piston opens port again...all that air takes a while to start flowing back towards the piston, to the point it maynt ever even get down the port! stick a chamber next to piston...air slams into that instead, and on the intake cycle, is released. the chamber needs to be large enough to hold all this excess air...

    there is a delay between the ends of a pipe, as a valve opens at one end. the piston opens port. excess pressure stored in bottle is there, ready to go, while air only just starts thinking about even wanting to enter that pipe...

    talking about split seconds here, which is actually a fairly long time. to us, living in slo-mo, it seems instantaneous.

    theres the other half of the boost bottle theory...it also smooths out the flow of air through the manifold, negating piston port effects. or, on the other hand..it ACCENTUATES the effect, and creates maximum power at one RPM at the expense of good running at any other RPM...


    the same theory also limits piston engines to approximately 32,000rpm... even with a port opening directly to the atmosphere, there simply isnt enough time for the air to start flowing before the port is already closed again! air CANNOT flow faster than the speed of sound propagates through it!

    i was looking at pneumatic firearms a while ago... hydrogen/helium are the WORST propellants, as they are so "light" that sound travels rather slowly through them, whereas...if you could safely handle Radon gas... being the densest of all gasses, sound travels the fastest. the projectile cant go faster than the gas expands, and its expansion rate is determined by the speed of sound through that gas. of course, the gas is normally compressed, which does raise its density and therefore the speed of sound through it.




    as a naturally occcuring element, osmium, the heaviest metal of all, has the fastest propagation of sound waves. (anything heavier is a synthetic element)

    this is a bit like hitting a nail with a hammer... the force is virtually instantly available at the point of the nail, yet... if the nail was a few miles long, there would be some delay between the hammer blow and the point penetrating the material as the compression wave travels the length of the nail... change nail to a pipe full of gas, and the delay between the ends will increase. remove the gas entirely, and there wont be anything at all!

    reading something about neutron stars and black holes the other day...it mentions that at a certain diameter of neutron star, the density is so high that sound will theoretically travel FASTER than LIGHT. at this point its gone past the point of no return and becomes a black hole... at least i think thats what it implied...

    wave physics. theres high pressure and low pressure waves bouncing around, densifying one part, rarefying another part...

    co2/nos bulbs only work on lil pipsqueaks of about 5cc or so... but then ive never seen anything about using several linked up to one tube ;)


    worth a shot! especially if you get the nos bulbs instead ;) hint... hospitality suppliers sell the small bulbs in bulk for a lot less than anywhere else! and there are two or three sizes available...

    once again...everything relates to everything else in some way... an engine is very similar to a musical instrument. hence why my posts always ramble on a bit and touch on what seems like completely unrelated topics :) my apologies :(
     
  12. bigoilbob

    bigoilbob Member

    Whew! RU staying on schedule?

    Separately, I hope that the pseudo statistical study in your liner notes is not your view of real such studies. All petroleum engineers (IM1) R about half statistician, and I think we would recognize that non criminals (violent and non) eat bread at about the same rate as their counterparts, and that we would not arrive at 3). But maybe it's only humor from an "up day"?
     
  13. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    fine, heres the whole thing :rolleyes7:

    Did you know:
    1) More than 98 percent of convicted criminals are bread eaters !

    2) Exactly half of all children who grow up in bread - eating households score in the bottom 50% on standardized IQ tests !
    3) In the 19th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 55 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, scarlet fever, smallpox and influenza ravaged entire nations !

    4) Statistics show that more than 75 % of violent crimes are committed within 24 hours of eating bread !

    5) Bread is made from a substance called "dough." Researchers have proven that as little as one pound of dough can choke a large animal like a horse. The average person eats more bread than that in one month !

    6) Bread is known to be extremely addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and given only water, actually begged for bread after just two days !

    7) Bread is a "gateway" food item, which usually leads to such items as butter, jam, peanut butter and even ... bacon !

    8) Bread has been proven to kill. Scientists have now uncovered alarming evidence that 100% of the people who eat bread will eventually die !

    9) Unattended newborn babies can choke on bread !

    10) Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 425 degrees Fahrenheit ! Don't laugh...that kind of heat can kill a full grown adult in less than five minutes.

    11) 96 % of cancer victims eventually admit that they've eaten bread !


    12) Sadly, 9 out of 10 bread eaters are unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.



    Misinformation
    One could argue that every one of these individual "factoids" about bread is "true." The way the "factoids" compare bread with danger, and the use of official - statistical - scientifical sounding words cause the unthinking reader to make connections of logic that aren't true.



    i could say the same things about sleeping! :jester:
     
  14. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    petroleum engineer?


    drilling side of things, survey side of things, or actual cracking distillation side of things? each area has its own challenges ;)


    i used to rebuild the drill heads...and while $35,000 for a drill bit sounds excessive...when its about 2km down a hole with all that pipe on top...failure is not allowed! and its really just a drop in the ocean compared to the profits...

    Photo0006.jpg


    only weighed in at around 70kg! not necessarily for oil drilling...just drilling in general.


    another statistic...over here, theres a big hoo ha about coal seam gas... unbeknownst to the general population, most of our gas here in AU IS coal seam gas... and has been for sometime. its what used to kill the canary! it has to be removed before digging commences.


    but i DO agree with the negatives regarding "fracking" for the stuff...

    while any supporter of GMO needs to be hung drawn and quartered.


    yep. an up day :)


    cept i cant get up :(
     
  15. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    yeah that was a good ramble alright! i was planning on using a bottle around 200cc does it need to be 49cc or does it matter?
     
  16. HeadSmess

    HeadSmess Well-Known Member

    heh heh heh :)

    most "guides" i seem to come across always say somewhere near the cylinder capacity... cant think where it was....49scoot.com or something like that... making em out of pvc, which isnt really a bad idea at all... cheap, easy to work with...

    getting the hose as close to piston as possible. making the hose large, but not TOO large, and remembering to add the volume of the hose to the bottle...after that... youre on your own!
     
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