fuel injection by 2014?

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by jaguar, Oct 7, 2012.

  1. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    from http://www.walbro.com/pr032411.aspx :

    The Walbro EEM InjectionTM system will allow Chinese manufacturers to meet upcoming exhaust emissions standards such as Euro 4, which goes into effect in 2014. In addition to becoming the European standard, Euro 4 is expected to be the basis for exhaust emission standards in several key export markets for Chinese scooter manufacturers.*The importance of meeting exhaust emission standards in each export market has become very visible with recent, costly crackdowns by the United States EPA on imported scooters that did not comply with US requirements. Enforcement of exhaust emissions standards is expected to continue to become more stringent throughout the world, making compliance a significant issue.
     

  2. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    I just don't see it impacting our engines with a lack of dedicated charging system. I believe 4 amps is the minimal to operate a controller and pump. A returnless, PWM pump reduces the amperage requirements, but not enough without a dedicated charging system. Many 50cc scooter enthusiasts attempted to convert with the Electrons systems, but failed due to the lack of power to run the pumps at the required amperage.

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  3. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    DIY is not what we're looking at here. If the China Gas factory decides to utilize this system then I'm sure they will incorporate a big enough generator to supply the pump power. Fuel injection is going to be essential for 2 strokes to pass gov't regulations. More fuel economy, more power, less contamination!!! this is a jackpot!
     
  4. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    Maybe so. Here's a company that designed a system based on the Freescale system in 2008. It looks very similar to the Walbro system: http://www.electrojet.org/index.html It is made for small engines for lawn equipment.

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  5. MotorBicycleRacing

    MotorBicycleRacing Well-Known Member

    Never going to happen.
    You got to be dreaming thinking that Don Grubee could ever go in that direction.

    Motorized Bicycles are a tiny market compared to scooters and will never justify
    the capital that would be required.
     
  6. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member


    No so fast BigBlue - Wonderful Creations is about 5 weeks away from producing a 5 amp, 12 volt electric starter/generator for the chinese bicycle engine
     
  7. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    and they have a few other very interesting developments coming your way, including a system that completely gets rid of the standard magneto and standard magnet.
     
  8. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    We desperately need an electronic fuel injection system on these Chinese Bicycle Engines.
    Currawong Engineering already has a complete micro EFI system (that easily fits in the palm of your hand) for small engines around 30cc.

    The technology is already here. The technology does not need to be developed. The technology only needs to be installed on the Chinese bicycle engine and it's job done!!!
     
  9. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    Wonderful Creations is about 5 weeks away from producing a 5 amp, 12 volt electric starter/generator for the chinese bicycle engine

    I'll believe it when I see it.

    Yes the technology is already there, but the problem is most manufactures only want to sell to OEMs and in large quantities to be cost effective. I don't see selling to the end user. Is a DARPA sponsored product going to be sold to the general public or let the Chinese company manufacture? UAV components has to be expensive. Currawong is advertising aerospace quality. I am sure they could reduce the costs. With the added cost of a charging system and an EFI system, how much is a person willing to spend on an engine that costs a $100.00? That is one of the reasons why this hobby exists - because of the cheapness of the Happy Time engines.

    At this point in time, I don't see it happening.

    FYI, here's a system that uses ink jet technology: http://www.nwuav.com/index.html

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  10. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    O.K., lets forget the pipe dream and talk practical solutions. A possible is a Direct Injection system similar to what is used on the Aprillia 50s. Clean Engines International currently has solutions for clean burning 2 stroke Direct Injection systems, developed by Envirofit with a license from Synerject, a subsidiary of Orbital Engines. Per the Envirofit International Case Study, the system would cost approximately $90.00 in 2008 and may be less expensive now. A practical solution could be developed by Clean Engines International for the Happy Time engine. I believe they have a license from Synerject (Orbital) that would help keep costs low.

    Some hurdles would have to be overcome in developing components, such as the air pump, fuel pump and magnetic pickup, but I think wouldn't be overwhelming. Member crmachineman on the other forum develops custom head for the Happy Time and probably could develop a two port head for the plug and injector. He is currently designing a three port head. This could be used as a prototype: http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=41673&page=3; http://www.ebay.com/itm/Motorized-b...r_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item1e71f5ab9f

    Envirofit International and Colorado State University:
    http://www.scribd.com/doc/57017526/Envirofit-Case-Study
    http://jawamania.info/Files/tech/22...Retrofit_Kit_for_Small_Two_Stroke_Engines.pdf
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe5-N5mDiAA - Skip to 5:20 to see what is included in the kit.

    Synerject:
    http://www.synerject.com/di.html

    Clean Engine International:
    http://clean-engines.com/

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2012
  11. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    12 volts and 5 amps of starter & generator combination is coming this way - no religious conversion needed, just a few more sleeps and it will be ready for delivery :tt1:
     
  12. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Once that project is finished i want Wonderful Creations to design a more sophisticated (multi adjustable) CDI system and have a red hot go at designing a workable fuel injection system. Those guys seem fairly keen at making things happen .
     
  13. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    This sounds like the holy grail! I could probably up my MPG's into the 200's with this setup. What worries me is long-term reliability. Lots more parts to break compared to the stock gravity-fed system. And I would like to try that new ignition/charging system. Hopefully, I can find a compact, lightweight battery to work with that system. Currently, (no pun intended) I'm looking into an ignition module that is a takeoff of the GM HEI, but it requires a constant 12 v to operate.
     
  14. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

  15. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    Thanks, BigBlue, that's an interesting link. I've put together some unusual combos on racing and street performance engines in the past, and have had the best results with the GM HEI. You have a good point on the current draw, I'll have to look into that. That Nova II module looks interesting. I'll have to delve deeper into it to see if it's practical for our use.
     
  16. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    The Wonderful Creations generator and starter and replacement (newly designed and massively upgraded) ignition combination can also be supplied with a 4 amp hour lithium battery that has a 12 volt weatherproof cigarette lighter socket to allow charging of portable devices, such as an ipad or laptop or in my situation, i'll be using the 5 amps output to power a heated jacket and heated pants and heated boot warmers and heated gloves for when i'm riding in the snow.
     
  17. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    After the development work has been completed on the generator & electric start and ignition upgrade, they will start work on a proper high energy CDI system. Think of it it as a Jaguar CDI on steroids with a much more user friendly way of changing the ignition curves.
     
  18. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    Naturally i'm first in line to get the new parts because i've put up some cash to get the development work happening.
     
  19. Purple Haze

    Purple Haze Active Member

    That lighter socket would work great for a 12v air pump!
     
  20. Fabian

    Fabian Well-Known Member

    It would easily power a 12 volt air pump. It would also power a 12 volt kettle, a small 12 volt (non compressor) fridge, a 12 volt vacuum cleaner and your wife's 12 volt curling irons.

    That starter/generator combo will be the second best thing since sliced bread - the first being the SickBikeParts shift kit.
     
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