Kings upper assembly?

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by hot70cc, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    does anyone know if the kingsmotorbikes upper assembly they have for sale on their website is the same as the dax 70cc if not it looks like it will still work on these motors because the gasket kit they have for sale looks exactly like the gaskets on the dax 70cc. Any info would be great thank you
     

  2. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    I tried a Kings upper assembly on a Dax and it didn't work for me. With everything installed, the piston was hitting the cylinder head. It took 3 headgaskets to get the piston to clear but then the engine ran like ****.
     
  3. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    I wonder why it didn't run good if it fit with all the gaskets in place to clear the head. I'm thinking of trying it out and with that bit of information about the gaskets , i can avoid any damage to the head to get max performance. I don't see any reason why it wouldn't work. Did that upper assembly include the piston and rings?? I 'd sooner try the kings upper assembly for $50 instead of buying all the separate parts from dax at $110
     
  4. Jim H

    Jim H Guest

    With that many gaskets you increase volume, decrease compression.
     
  5. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    to do that particular mix-n-match, it's best to stack the gaskets (if needed, i've seen both instances) at the bottom...it keeps the port-timing & compression closer to original design.
     
  6. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:Hot, it has to do with correct deck height to attain optimum compression ratio and engine performance.

    Insufficient deck clearance causes the piston to kiss the head at high rpm and self-destruct. This problem is corrected by machining the piston top or using a thicker gasket(cheaper and quicker).

    Excessive deck clearance causes a loss of compression ratio and power.This problem is corrected by machining the cylinder head's mating surface(flycutting) or using a thinner gasket(cheaper and quicker).

    Deck height may be described as the distance between the piston's highest point and the cylinder head's lowest point. This is at the moment when the piston is at TDC(top dead center). This is the highest point that the piston can reach in the cylinder, at the compression or exhaust stroke.

    I hope this helps.

    Myron
     
  7. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    original cylinder

    Ok if i am using the original cylinder i read in here to use 2 cereial box gasket stacked on top of each other to replace the original in thickness is that correct?, or is it just a tad thicker than that??? thank you all for the help. I guess i will be using the original cylinder if i will lose power with the other one
     
  8. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    2 didn't work in one case for me (stock dax70)...i still had a tad of slap...if i could do that one over again, i'd use 3 cereal-box thicknesses. what i did instead was add another head gasket. it did run just fine that way until we toasted the upper bushing, which was because cruzin was trying to go wide-open-throttle all day against the GEBE tanaka.
     
  9. minibiker

    minibiker Guest

    i tried this and they do run like $hit with that specific modification i went to the ace hardware and bought alluminum stock to raise it up
     
  10. hot70cc

    hot70cc Guest

    ok thx i'll try 3 of them great thing to know before its all back together
     
  11. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:The proper solution is to first measure actual piston-to-head clearance. If clearance is excessive compared to engine specs, then the cylinder head is removed and machined to restore proper clearances. If clearance is limited, then the piston's crown is machined to attain proper clearance.

    Any other way compromises engine performance.

    If I were digging into my engine's innards and visiting the machine shop, I would also balance the entire reciprocating assembly.

    I have to chuckle whenever anyone mentions stacking cereal box gaskets.

    Myron
     
  12. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    yeah? only on a happy-time, eh? there wasn't any chuckling when it did 35mph! 'cruzin ran it hard and it wasn't a gasket problem that led to it's final demise, i tellyawut.

    there may be a "right" and a "wrong" way to do something, and i'm well aware of the difference...but no way i spend more to machine an engine part than the engine's worth. if cereal box does it, then cereal box it is :)

    btw-"stacking" is because of the thickness of the original gasket, if you can find something of the proper thickness, then certainly you should use only one.
     
  13. Dockspa1

    Dockspa1 Guest

    I wonder if the cylinders have the same I.D. (internal diameters). If one fits but the rings aren't as snug as they are supposed to be, when the motor warms up, they may not seal completely. Also there would be a difference in compression ratio's.
    P.S. I'm with Augie on the cerial boxes. They have held longer than OEM for me several times and not just on Happy times.
    Doc
     
  14. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    :cool:Maybe stacking gaskets isn't so bad after all.HOWEVER, you should realize that doing so without measuring piston-to-head clearance might attribute to a loss in compression and power.

    When you're working with 2-3hp engines, a mismatch WILL be noticeable.

    I might've been subconsciously crossreferencing to cast iron CHEVROLET engine blocks I've worked with. Stacking gaskets was not an option on those engines. Machining the piston crowns or decking the block's mating surface was the only way to correcting or blueprinting mismatched pistons/heads/engine blocks.

    My apologies if I ruffled anyone's feathers.

    Myron
     
  15. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    my feathers are fine :)

    i too make the common mistake of applying my "real" experience to the happy-time...with the exception of basic theory, it's apples and oranges...

    i keep hoping to find a happy-time in my next box of cereal, sure beats a secret-decoder-ring anytime! :lol:
     
  16. Dockspa1

    Dockspa1 Guest

    Feathers, what feathers? All I have is black fur with a white stripe. Everyone has a right to their own opinions, good, bad or indifferent, it's all good.
    Doc
     
  17. Haggard

    Haggard Guest

    hmmm i didnt think the bolt pattern was the same. for head bolts. I have a pk 80cc yeah right 65cc and I have a couple others i picked up used cheap and i noticed the headbolts where spaced differently. must not be daxs I guess?
     
  18. Dockspa1

    Dockspa1 Guest

    When I bought my first engine from Kings, I ordered a spare spark plug from Dax but the threaded end was about .100 longer than the one from Kings. Out of fear of the piston hitting the longer plug I put 2 compression rings on the plug. That would mean my Kings head was thinner than the Dax. Right?
    Doc
     
  19. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    king's does the "80"(sheesh! you'd think he'd take a HINT!)...6mm studs, right? dax's original 50 & 70 both use 8mm, his "65" uses 6mm.

    there's a really cool "spark plug" topic that discusses plug lengths and such, anybody have it?

    2 different patterns, yes, and the quick reference is stud size....don and i were just comparing 2 the other day.

    it seems that anything that has 8mm headstuds (usually just genuine 70's) is (probably) interchangeable...???

    maybe the same with the "80"/65's which use 6mm studs?
    __________________
    "....Get a bicycle. You will not regret it. If you live." — Mark Twain
     
  20. Haggard

    Haggard Guest

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