need advice on my moon dog before install.

Discussion in 'Bicycle Repair' started by CheapskateNH, Jun 23, 2008.

  1. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    So I'm planning on re-packing all the grease on my moon dog when it arrives. I'm pretty familiar with bearings in the fork and front wheel, but I want to do the crank and rear wheel too. I think the bearings in the crank can be accessed with ordinary tools but I know the rear wheel needs a chain whip tool and something called a cassette removed tool to get it apart. I know how to use the tools because I've seen it done before but there's like 20 different kinds of those "cassete remover" things. I just want to buy the one I need online so I can service it as often as I like. Does anyone know which style moondogs use or who to call to find out before the bike arrives? Kulana is made by pacific. Any help or advice on the bearings is appreciated. -Evan
     

  2. SirJakesus

    SirJakesus Guest

    I dont think it uses a cassette, I think it uses a 7 speed freewheel.
    Welcome to the party. It's nice to see more new hampshirites around here. There was another member here who just recently bought and motorized a moon dog in NH, maybe you two could get together and compare notes. Like him helping you get through the motorizing and you teach him how to repack everything if he wants. As far as I've heard people haven't had bearing problems on the moon dogs just one issue with defective rims. So it should be a good bike on the cheap. But only time will tell.... If only WalMart knew what people are doing to all their moondogs.
     
  3. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Needs to last...

    yeah walmart has some attractive bikes for the price but from experience the bearings go in a year or less... I'm packing mine with axle grease right out of thebox because I think the factories use cheap bearings with hardly any grease...
     
  4. cruiser66

    cruiser66 Guest

    I just finished going through my Moondog that I got from eBay. The bearings are all caged and very little grease was used in assembly. The bottom bracket and front wheel bearings were too tight but the rear wheel was right on. However, like I said, all the bearings were almost dry. I was able to remove the cogset from the rear wheel with the chain whip, regular screw driver, and a hammer. I only have Shimano freewheel removers so I could not pull the freewheel. I packed grease from the opposite side through the hub which was OK since I didn't have to clean the bearings. Worked good. I also had to true up the front wheel so the brakes could be set right. Couldn't do anything with the composite pedals, but they are good enough for a non-pedaling bike. I think you will like your Moondog. Good Luck!!

    66
     
  5. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Thanks for your input 66- it helps. I mostly work on cars so I'm a little confused. What's the difference between the cogset and the freewheel? I want to copy what you did to the rear wheel but I lost you somewhere? You unpacked the other side of the wheel and stuffed more grease in? Thanks for any suggestions. -Evan
     
  6. cruiser66

    cruiser66 Guest

    The cogs would be another term for the rear wheel sprockets. The seven sprockets on the rear wheel of the Moondog are more commonly called a cassette. In this case the individual cogs are not attached to each other and are seperated by washers. If you remove the lock ring, they will all come out individually. They are keyed so that they will be properly oriented when you put them back on. If you remove them carefully, you probably can just slide the whole stack right back on. What's left after you remove the cassette is the freewheel. The freewheel is the mechanism which allows the wheel to coast. The freewheel would have to be removed in order to remove the bearing behind it. A special extractor or puller is usually required to do this. If you remove the bearing from the opposite side of the hub, you should have enough room between the axle and the hub to push some grease down to the bearing which is next to the freewheel. Then just pack and install the bearing you just removed and adjust the play from that side. Since I was not able to remove the freewheel, removing the cassette was unnecessary which makes the whole procedure a lot easier. Just work from the side opposite the cassette. Hope this helps...

    66
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2008
  7. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Remover Tool

    Hey Cruiser- Thanks for the advice. I recall you said none of your shimano remover tools worked... I was thinking of buying a tool for the bike here: http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.cgi?id=774056424836&c=Tools&sc=Cassettes-and-Freewheels but my moon dog hasn't arrived... Would you be able to recognise which tool would fit just by looking at yours? 7 or 8 bucks is a steal to avoid paying a shop 15 or 20 every year to remove the freewheel for you... Any suggestions? It looks like theres only 6 or 7 main types of the tool...

    -Evan
     
  8. cruiser66

    cruiser66 Guest

    Remover Tool

    Hi Evan,

    The derailler system on the bike is a TD - One torque drive system. I cannot find any info on this setup. From what I can remember, the freehub had two holes inside which looks like it would accept a tool with two pins. The engagers on the tools that are commonly available have square or rectangular pins. I have included a link to a tool that might work if it had the round pins. There does not appear to be a formal website for Kulana Moon Dogs so no help from customer support. Let me know how you make out.

    http://www.biketoolsetc.com/index.c...tc=Freewheel-Removers-Notched&item_id=LF-0903

    66
     
  9. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    moon dog is made by pacifc. They also make a bunch of bikes nowadays like schwinn and mongoose to name a couple. I'm going to try calling to ask them but it'll be a battle spent on hold between several salespersons until I can speak to someone in engineering. I'll let you know how it goes. -Evan
     
  10. Marktur

    Marktur Member

    Guys - I JUST did this last night... first time, and not hard at all -- with the right tools!

    You need the Park FR1 Chain ring tool to remove the cassette. You do NOT need a whip.
    You also need 15, 17 cone wrenches for the rear, 13 for the front. You need a regular 15mm wrench for the wheel nut. Get a big monkey wrench for the FR1...or you will hurt yourself loosening it up!

    Apparantly, lube is at a premium at the chinese bike factory....mine were one step from "dry".
     
  11. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Marktur will regular wrenches do the job? Why "cone wrenches?" I have a huge craftsman tool set with nearly every wrench and/or socket I've ever needed for lots of stuff, do you think it'll do? Also what do you mean the "front"? The forks? Front hub? The Crank? Can you be more specific about which exact parts 'require' cone wrenches and what sizes for each location? It will help me alot.

    I also have another lead on the freewheel remover: Pacific bicycles number is 18007249466- ask for the division that handles the kulana moon dog, then ask for a parts order. Their part number for telephone ordering (online ordering not available) is "TLRFW" it's like 6.95 or 7.95, I forget. Their shipping rates are reasonable too- 4 bucks to my zip code...

    Does anyone know what if any special tools are required to disassemble the crank? Mine hasn't arrived from my order yet, but I know sometimes you need a funny wrench that looks like a half circle with a fingernail or something. I don't want to improvise removal of that piece with a hammer and a slotted screwdriver if I don't have to... Anyone know what I'm talking about?

    -Evan
     
  12. cruiser66

    cruiser66 Guest

    Hi Evan,

    For the crankset:

    A 14mm open end wrench for the pedals and I used a large adjustable (12" or larger) for the bottom bracket nut. Don't know the exact size for the BB nut because a didn't have something that big in the open end wrench set. The bearings are the caged type. No special tools required for a complete disassembly.

    66
     
  13. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    So cruiser, other than the need for a freewheel remover tool, I should be able to re-pack ALL other bearings without any additional special tools? -Evan
     
  14. cruiser66

    cruiser66 Guest

    I only addressed the bottom bracket. Cone wrenches are used for the wheel bearing cones because the flats are not very wide and you really need a thin wrench to get in there. Cone wrenches are probably less than 1/4" thick. The cone wrench is used to hold the bearing cone so that you can tighten the lock nut without disturbing the adjustment of the bearing. I did not check into the headset (fork) bearings since the play was correct and there was no binding on my bike...

    66
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 28, 2008
  15. Marktur

    Marktur Member

    Cone wrenches are pretty inexpensive <$5 wrench at a bike shop, and I've seen them on eBay for even less...just get the 3 I named. Then also get the Park FR1 - this is what you need to take off the gear cassette. I haven't done the fork yet, and not sure what specialized tools are involved for that. Regular wrenches do not fit on the cones and you can use regular wrenches for the locknut, but a cone wrench is thinner and allows you to make adjustments while the wheel is on the bike if you need to.
     
  16. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Marktur- I'm going to need to order those cone wrenhes to do this right. Do I need two of each? Can you be more specific becuase some wrenches online contain multiple sizes on one tool but it'd be useless if I needed to use both sizes at once. Can you tell me more specifcally which wrenches need 'doubles' and Which sizes I won't need to use simultaneously so I can try to minimize tool count? Thanks -Evan
     
  17. Marktur

    Marktur Member

    Hi Evan,
    You need one of each. The 17 is for the locknut, the 15 is for the cone - 13 for the front. You don't have to get the 17, but it makes it easy to adjust on the bike, without removing the tire. Trust me - I just did that yesterday, because it loosened up on me. :)

    Hope that helps!
     
  18. bikejohn

    bikejohn New Member

    Cheap...don't buy a freewheel tool until you know exactly which freewheel or cassette you have. There are several variations, especially on the newer Chinese bikes. But if you're going to repack only, you don't need to pull the freewheel; disassemble just the left side. Once the axle is out of the way you can get grease into the right race easily.
     
  19. CheapskateNH

    CheapskateNH Member

    Thanks bikejohn but I broke down and bought the tool from them for 7 bucks... Marktur- based on the sizes you gave me, would I be able to buy just these two combination wrenches without ever needing to use both sides of one wrench at the same time? Links below. Cheapest I could find. Hence my name ;) Thanks if you can help.

    http://www.rei.com/product/758555?p...-6348-DD11-98CA-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA

    http://www.rei.com/product/758555?p...-6348-DD11-98CA-001422107090&mr:referralID=NA

    The picture is the same for both products but if you look at the drop-down list they're selling a combination 13/17mm wrench, and a combination 15/16mm wrench. As long as I don't need the 13mm and the 17mm at tyhe same time, or the 15mm and the 16mm at the same time I'll be ok. Can you verify that just these two combo wrenches will be ok? Happy 4th of july everyone!

    -Evan
     
  20. bikejohn

    bikejohn New Member

    Evan, while it's possible that you might need a 13 and 17 or a 15 and 16 at the same time, it's best to use a "real" wrench on the jam nut--only the cone needs a thin cone wrench. You can use the cone wrench in combo with a regular wrench. The jam nut is thicker and those good 'ol Snap-ons or Craftsmans will work best. In fact I wouldn't recommend using a cone wrench on the jam just because it will wear out quicker. These wrenches are stamped from sheet steel and they do wear out fairly quickly--and like you I am cheap.

    As for the 16mm, I've worked on foreign cars and motorcycles since the 60's and I have never used a 16 or 18 in my life--until I started on bikes. I've bought sets of metric wrenches that have both and could never figure out why they had those two sizes since they aren't really used. When's the last time you used a 19/32" wrench? They make them but who uses them nowadays? Anyway, I was working on a Gitane a while back and it had a 16mm jam nut. I was floored! I must own half a dozen, new, never used 16's, but of course I couldn't find one...

    j
     
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