power loss from heat

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by zippinaround, Sep 29, 2016.

  1. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    In theory if we can reduce the heat absorbed by the engine itself it should yield better performance , recently i have been trying to find a supplier of internal engine coatings (requires sandblasting ,applying the coating then baking in an oven) well i found a supplier but this stuff is expensive , basically wondering if anyone has ever had any encounters with such coatings.
     

  2. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    you would be better off casting a new piston and cylinder out of a hypereutectic alloy
     
  3. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    My Suzuki 100 has ceramic coating on the piston top. It just delays the heat buildup so I don't recommend it for anything but very short races.
    On these engines there's too much heat due to overly advanced ignition (assuming the jetting isn't too lean)
     
  4. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    What kind of ceramic coating do you know? And did you just coat the crown? The stuff I'm looking at is a thermal barrier type for Crown and combustion chamber and a dry film lubricant for the skirt , cylinder and any other metal on metal areas bearing cages etc. The barrier is 30£+vat+postage for 100 ml the dry film lube is 40£+vat+postage for 250 ml .

    The thing that concerns me most is having to sandblast everything I mean a new cylinder is lovely and smooth , can't see the sense in blasting it.
     
  5. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

  6. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    Very interesting , how long ago was this? The thing about the seizing probably wouldn't happen if everything was coated , still very interesting tho , but I will be doing everything myself going from your prices the cost of the product doesn't seem too bad
     
  7. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    that was a year ago.
    you obviously didn't understand my explanation of why it seized. read it again, slowly. make sure each work has meaning. there is an art to reading which most people just don't get
     
  8. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    Yeah you said the piston cooled slower than the cylinder but if the cylinder wad coated too they should cool at the same rate no?
     
  9. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    you don't coat cylinders
     
  10. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    if the cylinder was coated then it would be cooler and its inner diameter smaller and the engine would seize even quicker
     
  11. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    Hang on I'll check the email I got pretty sure they coat the cylinder with dry film lubricant , no your correct he was talking about the outside of the cylinder to use a thermal dispersant , but going by what you said that would cool the cylinder even faster
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2016
  12. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    pistons always heat up more than cylinders which is why you have excess clearance between the two so that space gets taken up by the expanding piston
     
    Diamond Back likes this.
  13. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member


    The more and more I read some of these threads and post I get more disgusted... Some of you guys treat these paper weight mass produced crappy engines as if they were NASA's latest invention..""THERE NOT""".... I read and watch how some of you guys spend all day and night thinking that you are the one that is going to and has discovered some ancient Chinese secret and are going to build a 200 HP engine with one modification that only you have discovered....Its not worth it,, believe me and others we have all tried and thought of everything... ""JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE"""... If your that serious then buy a used CR, KX,or KTM 60 dirt bike and take the motor, pipe, carb, ignition and mount that in a frame with the gas tank and motor mount all ready incorporated and there you have it.. you will have a 14 HP engine that is water cooled and you can even shift 5-6 times sparing you the $200 jack shaft kit and you also get a nice pipe and carburetor already jetted... for the money and performance this is the best way to go.... some one once told me (JAG) that are you really going to notice that %5 percent difference for all that money and work just to lose reliability and %5 percent power somewhere else on the power curve.... Yes, I know this is a great HOBBY for us MOTOR HEADS and tinkers,, and its not for everyone... BUT COME ON MAN !!!! KEEP IT SIMPLE and FUN and DONT OVER DUE IT and FALL TO PIECES ..... ride safe and have fun in the end !!!!!PEACE, and ride it like you stole it !!!
     
  14. zippinaround

    zippinaround Active Member

    exactly what i think i'll do , those water cooled mini moto engine are pretty cheap and the 39cc version is meant to output 6.2hp , 50cc one is 11hp somehow? most likely a tad high still tho think i will try it , sure its not a ktm but is cheap, powerful and water cooled!
     
    Diamond Back likes this.
  15. Diamond Back

    Diamond Back Member


    Now your talking Zippin,,,, My next two builds are a KX or CR 60,65 engine in a steel frame bike with gussets welded in at certain frame points for strength or just by the GT 5 frame from GASBIKE.NET and transfer all my Diamond Back stuff over.... think about it,,, a 12 HP+ engine that is water cooled and reed valve, built in 5-6 speed transmission that you shift with your feet, and a PIPE and CARB all ready to go.... you cant beat it,,, think about it..

    My other build is going to be a 5 inch fat tire 3 wheeler with the 212cc predator engine,,, will be great for winter snow and summer sand and be a great tow or haul horse if need be,,,, and a true head turner if you do it up right... 100_0232.JPG kmb-gt-frame-gasbike.jpg a31c40dd0a82e592d274caadb95b1ffb.jpg fd5e57e11590eb3080548052be5bab05.jpg images.jpg IMG_2449.JPG.jpeg maxresdefault.jpg
     
    zippinaround likes this.
  16. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    I'm not too sure it's a good idea to put a strong engine in a weak bicycle frame with limited stopping power and limited traction surface
     
  17. panmines

    panmines Member

    Wow, does that bike in that last picture stand up by itself? Impressive.
     
  18. butre

    butre Well-Known Member

    that settles it, I'm building a fat bike. my truck is sitting on some bald 33 inch tall general grabbers that ought to look pretty cool. just gotta find a pair of 17 inch rims to poke some spoke holes in
     
    zippinaround likes this.
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