Are HT kits Illegal in US?

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by sonny, Jul 5, 2008.

  1. sonny

    sonny New Member

    I was just reading some threads and saw a poll and postings that indicated that there is a ban on the HT 2 cycle imports into the US. The companies that are selling them on ebay and such are out of Canada and are getting around the ban. I just completed and auction on ebay today for an 80cc kit and would like to know if I should go through with it. Would appreciate any input before I complete the transaction on Monday. Thanks, from the new guy trying to find his way in the MB world.
     

  2. augidog

    augidog Banned

    some opinion based on MUCH experience

    the HT (man, i am so sorry i ever coined that phrase) is NOT certified for use in the USA in any form. only the 48cc version will ever have a legal chance of becoming so, anything larger just makes your bicycle "legally" an over-powered bicycle and therefore an unregistered motorcycle instead.

    only my opinion...but opinion based on experience, personal communications with many key-players, and ethics.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  3. sonny

    sonny New Member

    In Florida any thing 48cc and smaller and not exceeding 20mph is a power assisted bicycle and in a class by itself. It does not require a motorcycle license, insurance or registration. I thought I had read that these engines were really not more than a 48cc engine and carried no markings. I planned to use the bike for short distance commutes and shopping. What kind of trouble am I setting myself up for? Thanks for the reply.
     
  4. augidog

    augidog Banned

    i see the majority of chinese engines being *openly* sold as above-48cc (obviously without markings, go figure)...mostly the "70"..."80" is a blatant LIE!

    like i said, much of my opinion is based on ethics....as we've learned over the last couple years, the american consumer is gonna do what he or she wants, regardless of the collective impact it has on the current situation.

    because of it's foundation, by default the entire (USA) HT industry is rife with dishonesty or at the least confusing subterfuge...you makes yer choices and you pays the price.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  5. sonny

    sonny New Member

    Sounds to me like I need to go back to the drawing board and find a US company that is selling that which is approved for operation here. If there is such a thing. Do these same restrictions apply to 4 stroke as far as you know? I really appreciate the informed input and advice. Thanks.
     
  6. augidog

    augidog Banned

    i appreciate your genuine inquiries and a chance to responsibly discuss this.

    yes, there are a few all-usa companies that only offer kits with japanese engines that are certified as meeting EPA/CARB requirements, in both 2- & 4-stroke options. half the size, same performance & twice the efficiency...3 times the cost & worth every penny, my tanaka 32cc has outlived half-a-dozen HT's easy...i am the service rep for one such company, there are more sources around the forums :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  7. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    Im not an eco crazy but with all the pollution we need to do the right thing in my opinion. If it isnt carbII compliant it shouldnt be sold as a new product.
     
  8. stringer

    stringer Banned


    hi do u have any link you can share about this florida law? i would like to have something to carry
    on me like this. thanks.
     
  9. sonny

    sonny New Member

    augi, thank you for the candid information and discussion. I guess my next step is to contact ebay. I have been looking at this option for some time now and not until I found this forum did I realize that there were so many others out there looking at the same alternatives. It was not until I was reading through this forum did I understand the possible illegality of this alternative. I also own a SACHS equipped bike that was originally assembled from the real SACHS parts by a company here in the US. It does meet all of the cc and other restrictions. Maybe my direction should be to get it in operational working order. The only drawback is having to wait for parts shipments from Australia and Europe. If you know the SACHS engine, you know that while it is very well engineered and designed it is also very expensive. A new engine runs about $1500.00. I thought that I would build one of the others for a lot less money and then take the time to address the SACHS. Looks like I need to go the other way. Thanks again for the info.
     
  10. sonny

    sonny New Member

    Stringer, yes I can find it again and I will post it here on the forum within the next couple of days. I will try to find it now, but, if it takes to long it will have to wait until tomorrow night. Gotta umpire some college games in the morning. Sonny
     
  11. augidog

    augidog Banned

    sonny, i'm very interested in reading about the forthcoming episode with ebay when you tell them you don't want the item because of legalities and seller "mis-statements"...

    this could be the start of a good thing, please keep us posted :)

    if we wanna "save the planet" we have to save the country first :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  12. sonny

    sonny New Member

  13. sonny

    sonny New Member

    augi, I will be happy to post the outcome of my conversations with the company and ebay. The other fall-back is American Express and the disputed claim policy. I feel like I am treading on thin ice here in this forum though. There are a lot of really cool people here that enjoy the construction and riding of bikes equipped with these engines. It is only my intent to keep my a** out of the sling and trouble and not to cause difficulties for others. It may be that I just need to take care of my own issues and not make them the issues of so many others at this point. What do ya think?
     
  14. augidog

    augidog Banned

    everybody better leave "sonny" alone ;)

    i have the right to protest these issues, sonny...i am an mbc-og...a co-creator and the former admin...i truly have had personal relations with the players involved. i'm a cold-war veteran (machinist's mate on the uss chicago cg11) who's earned my say, on this of all weekends (burp! pardon the beer-breath ;))

    yes, there are many cool-cats here riding HT's, i started with one myself and had many many samples sent to me. from a gearhead's point of view, the HT's potential is to die for... but it will never "get there" if we don't stand firm.

    don grube, bring a HT factory to the usa (and hire documented united states citizens) and i will personally beg congress for a waiving of the certification fees (but not the certification process) :) :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  15. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Heck, convince Briggs&Stratton to build them here. The potential market is of the order of 30 million units. Build them compliant, build them to US industry quality standards, and build them HERE. There are literally dozens of shut-down, mothballed production facilities all over this country that could be used, there are literally hundreds of communities that would grovel in the dirt trying to attract the work, and tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of experienced machinists/mechanics/technicians who'd love the jobs.

    Outsourcing may be great for the world economy, but it has been a disaster for the US economy, it puts this nation at enormous risk, and it insures our status as a permanent debtor nation. None of that is terribly attractive for my kids and grandkids.
     
  16. augidog

    augidog Banned

    indeed! it sure beats droning out "welcome to walmart" for minimum wage.

    i understand don owns the real patents, the way i read it only he could bring the HT to the USA...(corrections please)

    but i would p**p my pants if i heard about a reputable company like B&S bringing it back home...search out info on the "hodaka" company...seems to me guys like that would p**p too if they had another chance :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2008
  17. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    HT is just one possibility. Lots of different engine designs, and frankly, lots of possibilities. I've been bouncingaround in my head talking with my cousin who is a machinist and steam power enthusiast the possibility of building a small scale modern materials variant of the two cylinder stanley engine, direct drive to the rear axle, with a bottled gas (LNG) fed fire tube rapid response boiler and a condenser. I think it is doable, it's external combustion and would be very "green", modern gas comprsseor/storage bottling systems would let you compress and hold LNG in a bicycle frame reasonable tank, and rapid response boiler delays on start-up are on the order of 30 seconds. Not 30 seconds to pull away from a light - 30 seconds after light-off from a cold start in your driveway.
     
  18. augidog

    augidog Banned

  19. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Quite like that, actually. Using modern materials and technigues, that thing could be even more streamlined and a tighter fit.

    Just as an aside, has anyone here used link belt tech for a belt drive? I couldn't find anything, yet I've seen link belts used in some VERY high powered, high torque applications, exposed to severe weather. Link belts are lovely things - they can be any length, and they have very little stretch to them.
     
  20. augidog

    augidog Banned

    heck yeah! if i had a tiny lil HT with the quality & performance of my tanaka...
     
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