Australia 66cc Legal if peddling ?

[AussieSteve]

I emailed the RTA last night and got a reply this morning. (Pretty quick)

The rules as outlined in VSI 27 Rev1, (attached), have not been revised and are still current.
(200W, no speed limit or capacity restrictions mentioned. We can assume that this means 'posted' speed limits.)

They have no other information except this:-

Clarification – Registration of motorised devices

09-05-2008

The RTA is reminding the public that all devices with a motor must be registered for use on a road or road related area unless they are specifically exempt.

An RTA spokesperson said that registration is only granted to vehicles that meet National design and safety standards.

“The RTA will only register motorised bikes and devices such as “e-bikes”, if they meet the design and safety standards for a small motorbike or moped,” the spokesperson said.

“These vehicles are sold with a compliance plate which certifies they meet the required standards. Motorised bikes and devices that do not have this plate are not legal for road use, and are not able to be registered.

“These laws have remained unchanged for many years and are in line with the legislation in other states.

“Motorised wheelchairs and other disabled person’s conveyances are exempt from registration and operators of these vehicles must comply with the same road rules as pedestrians.

“Bicycles with an auxiliary motor of 200 watts or lower are also exempt from registration.

“These vehicles must have been designed as a bicycle – that is, to be propelled by human power – with the motor attached as a supplementary aid only.

“Some powered devices on the market sold as motor-assisted bicycles actually fall outside of the strict definition.

“People need to be aware of the laws as anyone caught riding a vehicle which is not exempt and is not registered, may be fined and have their vehicle confiscated by police.

More information on prohibited vehicles

Bottom line, literally - fines and confiscation if 200W is exceeded.

To address the topic of this thread, a 66cc is NOT legal, whether pedalling or not.

 

[AussieSteve]

Just re-reading the VSI doc, this stands out:-

Pedal cycles fitted with a motor (or motors) that can be simply adjusted or modified to increase the power output above 200 watts should be avoided. If any such adjustment is made, the owner and user may be prosecuted for driving an unregistered and uninsured motor vehicle.

It implies that a higher output motor can be used, as long as the controller is set to only power it to 200W.
It says adjustable systems should be avoided, not that they're illegal, unless they're set in excess of 200W.
(I'd love 400W for those hills you mentioned in your PM, Casey.)

 

[madact]

So - if you configure the thing so it meets the requirements of the law, it's legal, and if you configure it to not meet the requirements of the law, it isn't legal. Sounds like a refreshing outbreak of common sense, to me. Regarding the OP topic, It's pretty obvious to me that any of the I.C. engines out there will be producing more than 200W, so debating whether I.C. should or shouldn't be made legal alongside electrics is pretty much a moot point - anything in the appropriate power range would have be very custom and have a uselessly narrow usable power band - 2cc thimbledrome mod, anyone?

66cc even exceeds the legal limit for mopeds, which do require registration (and therefore manufacturer's plates & standards compliance) and at minimum a car licence or learner's R-class. Most of this thread seems to be about not getting caught. There's no question about it being illegal - and I for one won't be going around endorsing illegal activity on a public forum , and if you get caught riding something like this, my only comment is "fair cop". Is it dangerous? Well, that's another question entirely, and depends (as with almost anything in this world) on how it's used... but if you use it like you would a real motorbike with the same power output, IMHO you're asking for trouble.

 

[Fabian]

One thing that needs to be remembered on these forums (or any forum; social group or non profit organisation) is that agents of the secret services and security services and police and government are allowed to infiltrate groups to modify behaviour or thinking.

Don't be surprised if there are agents of these services working their psycho babble on "motored bikes".

Get suspicious at anyone who ardently agrees with government regulations that are totally unreasonable or plain downright stupid, as if they actually had to use motorised bicycles for transport, they would have no rational way of supporting ridiculously unreasonable legislation.

Fabian

 

[madact]

Hey Fabian, you accusin' me of somethin', boy?

Never said the regs were reasonable, just they are what they are (no reason not to try and get 'em changed, of course)... I guess I'm just a little more concerned with making sure I keep to the exact letter of the law because my ride of choice (velomobile) isn't as - inconspicuous - as a bike with an engine.

If I could, I'd have my ~200W ironless halbach cruise motor (couldn't afford enough batteries for a whole day's power otherwise) and and at least a 1000W chain drive for hill climbing. 200W at 150kg on a 5% gradient is what, 10kph? I won't call that a reasonable hill-climbing motor if you don't

As for what other people do, if they ain't harming anyone, I could care less. As for safety, I've done things on small engined motorbikes that would pretzel an MTB, done things I shouldn't have on an MTB that did pretzel them a few times (I'm a heavy guy, the frame, wheels, handlebars don't always survive touchdown) - and had my bike wrapped around my ears by a cager that just plain wasn't looking more than once. I just make the point 'cos I've heard of a few people who thought that just because they have a motor on their MTB now they can do jumps at motocross bike height and distance without something going squish.

Seriously though, don't you think our spooks would have something better to do? Though I guess, if the uniformed boys are going hard on crime by cracking down on preschoolers riding their toy bikes in the park these days, they might not - scary thought...

 

[Fabian]

It was a generic notation about how things operate, and yes the spooks are everywhere (most of it through automated data gathering mechanisms), particularly where political radicalism or extremist sentiments are present, such as the combustion chamber.

I work in the security industry, but maybe that counts for nothing.
I don't want to discuss it further as the thread needs to continue on it's original path: Australia 66cc Legal if peddling ?

Fabian

 

[usnavyret]

hope all goes well for you

 

[074KU]

I can't help you with QLD law, as I am Tasmanian, however I have been pulled over twice (with no other outcome than threats that summons to court will be in the post with nothing coming of it.) The police here generally accept any motorized bicycle (engine running or not) to be a motor vehicle and therefore cannot be ridden OR peddled on a public road (Road, Footpath, Bike track, Public car park, National park, Fire trail or beach are all considered "public roads" in Tasmania.) Leading to charges such as: (not sure all these charges have the correct legal jargon in them)
Operating a motor Vehicle without MIAB cover
Operating a Motor Vehicle without registration
Operating a Motor Vehicle without a license (if you are not licensed for motorcycle)
Operating an un-roadworthy Motor vehicle (lack of engineers certificate on "modifications" and lack of indicators, break lights etc.)
Operating a Motor Vehicle in a pedestrian zone (footpath or bike track)

That being said the onus of proof is on the officers of the law to show the bicycle is over 200w, here at least the prohibitive cost of putting the bicycle onto a rolling road has lead nearly every police officer turning a blind eye with only the odd officer (twice in 5 years) pulling you up and trying to put the fear of god in you.

http://www.zbox.com.au/legal.htm

This short section along with the URL on the site provided may give you some further insight into what you are allowed and not allowed to do.

Just my 5cents at the end, in TAS you can operate a 400w ride on toy until the age of 12 and from then on it drops to 200w.. seems the laws need to change..

 

[Fabian]

seems the laws need to change..

The law needs to radically change because it does not reflect the use of motorized bicycles by responsible adults who use the functionality of a motorized bicycle as a legitimate recreational tool for long distance journeys, and with a loaded bicycle trailer that adds significant weight; negating a large portion of the engines power output overcoming the extra carried weight.

A friend of mine is a Victorian Highway Patrol Officer and he has recently done research into the motorized bicycle legislation.
As things turn out, "any" internal combustion engine is illegal in Victoria, with around $3,000 worth of traffic fines if the police officer wants to mess up your life.

Every time i ride my bike, i am well aware that it's going to cost me $3,000, but i am prepared to wear it, because i enjoy riding the thing so much.


My friend has also informed me that the police solo unit (motorcycle police) are currently hammering those people riding motorized bicycles, and they are having great success.
He described it, or better put he described the police solo unit as describing the experience as "shooting fish in a barrel".

 

[074KU]

The law needs to radically change because it does not reflect the use of motorized bicycles by responsible adults who use the functionality of a motorized bicycle as a legitimate recreational tool for long distance journeys, and with a loaded bicycle trailer that adds significant weight; negating a large portion of the engines power output overcoming the extra carried weight.

Yup, I have always wondered if 200w of engine and a tank of fuel even offsets the weight of itself..

Sadly it will always be the idiot minority that ruins it for the rest, I am aware of 2 boys around age 15 or so (at a guess) that hoon up and down (what we would consider) a busy road, no helmets, weaving in and out of traffic and on one occasion I saw them ride the wrong way thru/around a round-a-bout. This sort of thing makes me quite mad as I always try to be the picture of courtesy when I ride, doing all the right things, only to see a pair of idiots doing things like that offsetting all my 'good karma.' Lord only knows that when they get hit and killed it will be a front page spread in the local rag..

Every time i ride my bike, i am well aware that it's going to cost me $3,000, but i am prepared to wear it, because i enjoy riding the thing so much.

I am in pretty much the same boat, if it happens it happens. I love to ride my bike, more it is my only mode of transportation and for reasons I wont expound here. I really wish for things to change for the better but experience tells me that is unlikely, so I shall wish you hassle free travels