chrome plated cylinder and steel lined one

Discussion in '2-Stroke Engines' started by amtnick, Dec 23, 2008.

  1. amtnick

    amtnick New Member

    hello ,everyone
    someone says the standard chorme plated cylinder is better than steel lined one,

    could anyone offer me some picture to show them?
    and tell me why chrome plated cylinder is better ?

    thanks
     

  2. I would think just the opposite, that the steel lined cylinder would be better.......
     
  3. hill climber

    hill climber Member

    where do you get a ht with a steel lined cylinder, what we have been waiting for.
     
  4. The Grubee Gen II has the steel lined cylinders now. Transformer sells them, and I imagine they will be in the States eventually......

    http://www.transformercycles.com/
     
  5. iron_monkey

    iron_monkey Guest

    what benefit does a steel lined engine give you? Considering the weakest link is still the connecting rod bearing even after using a needle roller bearing....
     
  6. Old Bob

    Old Bob Member

    On small displacement two strokes its more economical to simply chrome the bore after finishing than make a steel sleeve and the associated operations in its manufacture and it adds an additional asssembly operation.(provided its not cast in place) Where weight is a consideration such as hand held lawn tools its also a factor.
    It also doesn't have any heat transfer issues that a steel sleeve has.
    Some feel that chrome maybe be lower drag than plain steel. It certainly offers long life.


    On chrome bore cylinders the transfer ports are open to the piston motion, some feel that is a draw back to performance.Score one and its life is over.
    The other hand a steel liner giver you the ability to easily rebuild the engine if the OEM supplies oversize pistons. It also gives you "closed" transfer ports.On high performance engines it allows for options such as "boost ports" and bridged exhaust ports.

    The best two strokes I've worked on had chromed steel sleeves.
     
  7. On these Barrells the Intake and Exhaust ports are the ones for the 3mm Bigger intake and exhaust flange Alot closer to a tuned Jug as this Sleeve is STEEL and I beleive it is set in Cast Iron. These are heavy. I can get them. I have the option to on my Engines I just dont have the Carb or Exhaust at this time. The Chrome Is a lot lighter and will have less friction(More power) But the port size difference and port timing would allow further power increase. Pretty durastic. I beleive you can get a replacement Carb (the 3mm LargerTube and Carb) from(Grube) Spooky Tooth Soon.or(http://www.pccmotor.com/22mm-carbure...r22505050.html) direct to Intake Port mount! He also has some tuned off road pipes that would be nice to add a Catalytic converter too. I offered to do the design to Don but so far He'd rather me become a Distributer For Him before he sent me a pipe or 5 at a certain low price to start working with( a come up of a really sound Idea) and that I should just purchase the Pipe off Spooky Tooth. So hes not really concerned with the whole touching Bases with the On road thing with these. He actually sounded more like he wants to pay for the tools that he bought to produce the Rat Expansion Chamber FIRST And I cant say I disagree. They are going to have to get a Spark arrester on them before they are ORV Registerable. So **** push them till its paid for and well find a solution. None of us are rich. But we seem to getter done . . Oh Spookys got 30 Expansion Chambers coming hope they are available to the General public instead of the people that tear up Lawns. They wont last long that way any how.

    PM ME if you guys need to do a 20+ KIT order for the steel sleeve engine Ill do 20 at a time but Ill need to know before my next order (28 days). In two months you can order one at a time for $145 without the shipping. but 20+ orders will be closer to $118 a peice shp hndlg Im not sure how much. probably $20 to $40 pc. Depending on where your at? If this is a vendor thing since I gues sit is an Offering to our people could it stay in both places if not I'll re Write. Any Questions or copies of the EPA Ill have a copy for each and every one if need be. Furthermore each engine will have factory logo and data plate with EPA stamped into The Block.

    This is the link of the carb for the new port size on this engine (Steel Sleeved)22mm
    http://www.pccmotor.com/22mm-carbure...r22505050.html
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Wow...that new jug sounds pretty sweet....Any idea on the power increase one can expect from that along with the revised/latge intake system?

    Just curious but any idea on why the Super Rat expansion chambers are so hard to come by?...I have seen pics of them for years so they are being made already just not imported to the USA....Any idea on rough prices for these?

    Interesting stuff just around the corner!

    Andrew

    PS - Maybe some beefier / higher quality bearings sometime in the future to make all that extra power last?
     
  9. Hello Andy

    The newer engines are starting to revolute on 203 bearings and they are a pretty rock solid bearing. I beleive they are sealed on both sides/. I requested them on the Build I am having sent to me Now. I can get 6203 or 203's here in my area but you've got to know where you got your engine so you can order you Case Gasket. Gotta split the case. I've tor into a couple of distributers units. I currently have a Tiger Boygo fast and Old Pico and another Cast Iron for inspections 202 was the more common main bearing. Tiger had needle lower end. I didnt Split the Boygofast HUGE carnk but like I said I didnt look at the bearings. From the outside the Pinion Gear behind it looked like a 203? but I dont know if it was double sealed. The Japanese mainbearings are common or the Chinese arent behind! The Lower end neddles are realy long some different lengths but looked solid. Lower end on all of them if taken care of are probably what they refer to as a 10,000 mile engine. Id say without rings5k if you replace the rings at the first sign of blowby youll have a really tight sea in there. The nicasil they are Chroming with is 2nd to none when done on a smoothe straigh within tolerance bore. Your likely to see them now as the chinese are selling to people competing to have the best and Grube and (mainly) the Japanese to Compete with. New styles and Ideas are really raw on this level of engine and can not be Pattened so what the Big Buyer is doing is throwing thier weight around getting contracts and these factories experience a short break through but soon they all have it. and the contracts go out every one gets em until they run out of Ideas for a while then they Bring up things they did and blame others. Heh you can get what you pay for or look and hope to find what you think you need but in this game only name brand competitors Like Yourself will be remembered..So I Think the Factory is the place to begin asking about the bearings If you want to order them the upgrade is penuts to them they are loyal and are very much like the US when it comes to knowing what they want.Ideas actualy have bought contracts there because it is by word of mouth that they upgrade. It is the Time to get in there and get started with aN efficient Wide band Pipe matched with a free flowing(since a lot more gas are going back to the chamber to be burned) Catalist with a basic muffler/spark arrestor for the tip tip. I will help on this I guess Im just being lazy. I need to get info to write a basic program that will take into consideration of poste exhause waves and density and the devices characteristicsvs/ design Dimension. There is programs but the band is less vigourous and the gas has less oil in it.
     
  10. arceeguy

    arceeguy Active Member

    This is cool!
    If a steel sleeved engine kit is only $145 + shipping, I think you will sell many of them. I think that there are quite a few people like me that will gladly pay extra for kits with a steel lined cylinder!

    Do the kits have a roller chain tensioner? How many teeth does the rear sprocket have?
     
  11. Oh

    Yes, Roller Tensioner, and a 44 tooth. I opted for the chrome lined Big Port 66s this order but next order I will be ordering the 49cc Steel Jugged Kits as I have a buisness and have to keep under laws where they are harder. and to try them without reprocusion. I indeed have tried the 36cc with steel lined and a centrifugal(special order) It did just fine. Pulled me up my big hill..Heck of a power band. But the 49cc'er will be in early March. I do have the Big Port 66cc'ers on the way. Pick up is Early Feb before the 8th. I guess these are mosters. You can put the big Carb and tuned exhaust on these as the lower end is built with the good Mains.
     
  12. wjcleveland

    wjcleveland New Member

    Just to chime in with my two cents.
    If you think about the metals involved, the piston has steel rings riding up and down on steel sleeve or on a chrome plated cylinder, the steel is going to give you longer life and longer sustaining compression. One wrong mix of fuel and so long chrome cylinder, the steel is just more forgiving.

    I have attached some photos of some new cylinders I hope they will help.

    Bill

    at least I hope they attached :eek:
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Nicasil and Chrome Rings

    The way around Steel Sleeving is to simply Chrome the bore but there are Possible situations like chrome on chrome. Chrome rings are popular but usually used in a Nicasil or Steel Sleeve. Chrome on chrome can cause Ring sticking Broken Rings will soon be the outcome.. Yamaha was the pioneer of Chroming sleeves, as far as I actually don't know but they ran into this if not,
    Is chrome on chrome they Could under certain situations stick and bust a ring.
    Steel sleeve allows any ring material.

    What Size and Material are the Jugs WJ Cleveland? Is it a long stroke 66? Looks like a New Hone Job on one.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 19, 2009
  14. heathyoung

    heathyoung Member

    36cc? Thats pretty cool, would be good in Aus where our silly power limits are a problem... Especially with a cent clutch and rear freewheel...
     
  15. Kind of a different lil' Monster.

    Heres a pic. Oh some of the Distributers that have round heads are able to order these or have them from before the China 2 stroke Stipulated Ban. There is some here and available. You may contact Liveastmotors or Dennis of Grubee. They both have some of the older kit stuff theyve been sitting on.

    I do beleive the stroke on the 36 is shorter than the 48 which is shorter than the other 3 : 55 , 60, and 66cc but the bore might be the same on the 36or 38 and the 48.

    This picture is one I worked on but had later been bought back.I was first told it was a 49 then by the old boy who bought it was smaller like 36
     

    Attached Files:

  16. wjcleveland

    wjcleveland New Member

    I currently have just under 800 Grubee engines in stock, we are one of his World Distributors, we also sell new parts; the pictures I submitted were from new stock.

    As a vendor I try to comply with the rules by not mentioning things like You can check out out product at http://www.USABikeMotors.com.

    One of the holdups in China Gas engines being released to the US was getting them US/Canada EPA approved, they are all approved and now in stock.

    Bill
     
  17. Model 2 - HD Axle kit with solid hub for pedal start for 5000 dollars?
    What Happened to the HD It says on your site that the HD Rear axel Sprocket adapter did'nt work out so the kits will be coming as Through Spoke Sprocket Mounting?
    Does this mean your till selling them and that Your Selling all of them. If this was a plug Itold them since I did'nt yet have a Vendor Permission could we move it when I do. As I have a Buisiness License. Ill have to talk to Tom and see If I can Still Do that. Good Luck.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 21, 2009
  18. wjcleveland

    wjcleveland New Member

    Sorry for the long delay in response, been working on a trike;
    We have the HD Axle kit but have uncovered an issue in the threads, we found the threads do not match SAE or Metric, what was uncovered is they seem to be French design (maybe) waiting on a sprocket to be delivered. Still learning the web software determined the quickest way to discourage anyone from ordering them was to bump the price to 5k ea. You can now see I have changed the qty to 0 and corrected the price.

    Bill
     
  19. I had a Grubee Super rat GT5 engine (it had a steel lined sleeve) with larger ports. (Ran well) Very few imported. I also had the super rat expansion chamber. The big problem with pipe is, it had had hooped forward so far it wouldn't fit on most bikes. Unless the fork was raked way out it wouldn't fit. I am pretty sure thats why the grubee expansion chambers where so rare. Thanks, Dan
     
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