Honda GXH50 Warranty Scam

[johncy7]

instead of whinging, whining, all the works, starting petty arguments, slandering a company thats been manufacturing reliable engines since the late 50's, and saying the people here with over 5000km of trouble free service on the same engines are simply covering their asses and trying to make a sale, try this instead.

1 kilometer = .62 miles
5000 kilometer = 3106.87 miles

You think that's a lot of miles? I have more than 6400km on both my engines in only 5 months apiece. At that rate, I would have 30899.41km (19,200 miles) on one engine by the time my 2 year warranty would have expired.

As far as when they died, both engines were making a clanking sound. The first one pretty much died on the spot, but the second engine was still able to run when I took it to the shop. But I didn't want to mess with it because I didn't want to make it worse.
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Good call grinningremlin you beat me to it.

I've done warranty work in the past and it worked out well. The product is sold at a higher price, the repair company got x number of dollars for labor and everybody was happy. It wasn't a lot of money, but it was better than nothing. But companies and shops today don't seem to want to make it workable at all. Shops don't want to touch them because they'll have to spend the time to diagnose them. Then tell the customer what parts are bad and if it's not covered under warranty will give them a ridiculously high price to fix it that will be near the cost of a new one. The customer will then say no thank you, get their engine back armed with the knowledge of what parts to order and go home and fix it themselves. Then the shop is angry because they got nothing for diagnosing it. So instead, they will do everything possible not to spend any time on it or tell the customer in detail what's wrong with it. Instead apply some scam tactics hoping you'll abandon it and buy a new one. Then then the shop gets to fix and sell your old one. Then everybody but the customer is happy.

I can also tell you that I was told of both engines, that they wern't worth fixing. And like LR Jerry said, it would have been nice to have in writing how they came to that conclusion.

I've enjoyed this little mock trial we've been having. For me it has strengthened the title of this thread considerably. I especially liked IbedaYank's comment. Another way of saying it would be like this.

"Dear motorized bicyclists, none of your GXH50's will ever be covered under warranty. Suckers!"

Because, every single MB'er has had to do the exact same thing to every one of them and add a throttle lever.

Thanks guys!
-John

LR Jerry, I don't know what will happen to those engines at this point. I'll keep you in mind when I have no more use for them.

 

[preventec47]

Regarding the Honda 50 engines expiring, I was reading elsewhere
a while back so cannot remember where, that someone had disassembled a problematic G50 engine and found some plastic
parts that were badly worn.... I think in the CAM area. It may well
be the case that the 50cc Honda 4 strokes can be overhauled easily
and cheaply on a regular basis to provide extremely long lives.

regarding earlier comments, I believe it is true that these kinds of industrial engines are designed for a predictable lifetime and no more. I remember having a Sears consumer Poulan chain saw replaced within the 30 day warranty period where I had used it every day during a christmas season because I actually wore it
out. The Poulan rep said they never expected anyone to use one that much and that the particular chain saw engine was designed
to be disposable and with a 50 hour runtime life at full throttle.
I had probably run it 75 hours.


Also, I would like to add that with many industrial engines, heat
is what kills them as as they are not designed to shed the massive
heat build up that comes with nonstop hi rpm use. Most implements that use these engines only see full throttle use on
an intermittent basis that allows the engine cooling to catch up.

So, and I am just guessing here, while a mfgr may publish power
charts that show power figures at hi revs, I dont think those charts
imply in any way that those hi revs can be maintained continuously.

It so happens that my particular experience with these kinds of engines are on airplanes and I can guarantee that you should NEVER mention an airplane as an intended application. As far
as motorbikes go, I'd like to know if there is stated in the warranty
any limitations are as to specific application such as motorized
bicycles..... and if not, how is a consumer supposed to know
what is prohibited ?

 

[grinningremlin]

Regarding the Honda 50 engines expiring, I was reading elsewhere
a while back so cannot remember where, that someone had disassembled a problematic G50 engine and found some plastic
parts that were badly worn.... I think in the CAM area. It may well
be the case that the 50cc Honda 4 strokes can be overhauled easily
and cheaply on a regular basis to provide extremely long lives.

regarding earlier comments, I believe it is true that these kinds of industrial engines are designed for a predictable lifetime and no more. I remember having a Sears consumer Poulan chain saw replaced within the 30 day warranty period where I had used it every day during a christmas season because I actually wore it
out. The Poulan rep said they never expected anyone to use one that much and that the particular chain saw engine was designed
to be disposable and with a 50 hour runtime life at full throttle.
I had probably run it 75 hours.


Also, I would like to add that with many industrial engines, heat
is what kills them as as they are not designed to shed the massive
heat build up that comes with nonstop hi rpm use. Most implements that use these engines only see full throttle use on
an intermittent basis that allows the engine cooling to catch up.

So, and I am just guessing here, while a mfgr may publish power
charts that show power figures at hi revs, I dont think those charts
imply in any way that those hi revs can be maintained continuously.

It so happens that my particular experience with these kinds of engines are on airplanes and I can guarantee that you should NEVER mention an airplane as an intended application. As far
as motorbikes go, I'd like to know if there is stated in the warranty
any limitations are as to specific application such as motorized
bicycles..... and if not, how is a consumer supposed to know
what is prohibited ?

I believe the cam is a sintered metal, mistaken as plastic by some.If I'm not mistaken Honda specifically states that warranty is voided if used with MAB's, one of the reasons I went with a R/S-EH035 when I started.Almost any quality engine will run for decades, if run properly; on the counter, almost any quality engine can be killed in short order if over-stressed.It has been stated here by many posters that 4-strokes are a low-mid to mid throttle run engine, 2-strokes are for mid to mid-high to WOT.The OP was stating Honda doesn't honor their warranty, when he should be complaining about the company that sold him the Honda.What's the real problem is he didn't do his research, believed someone who was out to sell by dubious means, and needs a scapegoat for his abuse of the engines.It's a drag, but I believe he's a 2-stroker now, and they're much more forgiving of abuse.

 

[darwin]

Personally I think anyone using any equipment at full throttle most of the time is abusing the equipment. 3/4ths maybe................

 

[BigBlue]

Just buy one of Honda's HPD GXH50 engines for Kid Karts for $829.00 and your problem solved It has an expected engine life of 2000 hours. So what's the expected life of a non-HPD GXH50?

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7401-en

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

 

[johncy7]

I believe the cam is a sintered metal, mistaken as plastic by some.If I'm not mistaken Honda specifically states that warranty is voided if used with MAB's, one of the reasons I went with a R/S-EH035 when I started.Almost any quality engine will run for decades, if run properly; on the counter, almost any quality engine can be killed in short order if over-stressed.It has been stated here by many posters that 4-strokes are a low-mid to mid throttle run engine, 2-strokes are for mid to mid-high to WOT.The OP was stating Honda doesn't honor their warranty, when he should be complaining about the company that sold him the Honda.What's the real problem is he didn't do his research, believed someone who was out to sell by dubious means, and needs a scapegoat for his abuse of the engines.It's a drag, but I believe he's a 2-stroker now, and they're much more forgiving of abuse.

Here's your head troll at work. Even though no one (dealer, warranty company, or forum member) has ever asked me what RPM's I ride at, grinningremlinhas every believing that I run at full throttle. Wow, you guys are suckers. He believes the "cam is sintered metal". If not mistaken he believes "Honda specifically states that warranty is voided if used with MAB's".

yeah, you're probably mistaken. Why not trying to get some facts straight ahead of time instead of racing to be the first to reply to every post?

-John

 

[preventec47]

Just buy one of Honda's HPD GXH50 engines for Kid Karts for $829.00 and your problem solved It has an expected engine life of 2000 hours. So what's the expected life of a non-HPD GXH50?

http://www.honda.com/newsandviews/article.aspx?id=7401-en

Chris
AKA: BigBlue

Sorry to say bur you misread the engine life by
a factor of ten. 200 hours is the corrected number.
I'd like to know what exactly they have changed in
their so called "race version". At $829 for the race
version.... how much more is that from the normal
version ? I dont doubt for second that improvements to the motor can be made because
the 50cc honda scooter motors have withstood a lot of abuse for decades. I guess if we look at the components that are failing we can see where the
differences are in the motors.
of

 

[TREK820]

From what I get is john did not abuse the motor, kept it within rev range, and just had unlucky draw with the motor (is what I presume). He could have also got the bad batch. Maybe the lot was put through stress during transport at one time and a few of the motors were damaged during transport. We have all noticed this, goods at the store with a bunch of damaged boxes.

Anything can happen, but the lack of transparency during purchase by the store (not citing if use would void warranty) at the cost of a paying customer is pretty shoddy.

I don't know about you, but in Australia there isn't a finger blaming game generally by good ol Aussies. Namely because the law implies that any goods not up to an acceptable standard must and will entitle the customer to a replacement OR full refund at the customers decision.

And we do not abuse the system. we generally have an idea that life should be fair and try our best to make it so, all parties included. Some parties, (google computer parts store MSY) have tried to sell goods under their own makeshift policy such as LCD monitors if over 5 dead pixels will not be refunded and got fined by the supreme court about $250,000 AUD for each retail MSY chain.

Isn't a motor meant to be used? how is the average joe who uses the motor for whatever purposes going to gauge the RPM without a motor tach meter? Wouldn't honda have a built in rev limiter?

I wouldn't be happy if I lost money due to faulty products!

 

[butterbean]

It doesn't matter what rpm's he rode at, it doesn't matter what internal components the engine has or doesn't have, and it also does not matter if the engine was damaged or from a bad batch. Did he tell them what he was using it for when he bought it? Don't know but if he didn't, there would be no reason for the store to tell him anything about voiding is warranty. The fact is that he ALREADY ADMITTED that using an aftermarket throttle assembly VOIDS YOUR WARRANTY. Whether he knew that before or after he took it in for repair does not matter. That's the end of the conversation. In America, legally a warranty states under which conditions it will cover a warranty and which it won't. He was clearly outside the provisions of the warranty, so everything else is irrelevant. But don't listen to me because I am a troll and I work for Honda, selling their engines and working in the warranty claims division to make sure people like poor little johnny boy here get screwed.

 

[grinningremlin]

Here's your head troll at work. Even though no one (dealer, warranty company, or forum member) has ever asked me what RPM's I ride at, grinningremlinhas every believing that I run at full throttle. Wow, you guys are suckers. He believes the "cam is sintered metal". If not mistaken he believes "Honda specifically states that warranty is voided if used with MAB's".

yeah, you're probably mistaken. Why not trying to get some facts straight ahead of time instead of racing to be the first to reply to every post?

-John

Notice how when you agree with him it's "good call" but when you disagree you're an instant "troll"?Congruent with, when the stuff is working "it's GREAT" when it breaks (same equipment) "it's crap".
First, you don't know the difference between a troll and a gremlin, a troll never has anything useful to say.Second re-read your rant post about grubee here http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthr...ee-Junk-Hello-To-Reliable-Motorized-Bicycling!You did no research, you bought crap, then slowly went up the scale to better stuff, still not researching, then put your mistakes on the backs of others.Here's one reason I didn't buy honda, the info was out there you just didn't bother (just like the info about grubee being cheap and you're better saving for something else)http://motorbicycling.com/showthread.php?t=35565.That's a year before you signed up here, I gather it's Statons fault that they didn't reach you personally with that info, as you're so dam.n.e.d. important.
Or this info:This warranty will not apply to:

* Any part that has been subject to misuse, negligence, accidental damage, improper or inadequate maintenance, or improper storage.
* Repair rendered necessary or arising from the use of other than genuine HONDA parts.
* Normal maintenance items including but no limited to adjustment and cleaning of carburettor, fuel strainer, oil & air filter, cables, brake components, intake valves, exhaust valves, clutches and serviceable bearings.
* Normal replacements of service items including but not limited to spark plugs, air & oil filters, cutting blades, tyres, brake pads, brake shoes, lightbulbs, fuses, clutch components and serviceable bearings.
* Deterioration of any item due to normal use, fair wear and exposure unless due to a defect in material or workmanship.
* Any work or adjustment performed by persons other than authorised HONDA franchise/dealers or damage resulting therefrom./li>
* Any damage that results from operating methods other than those indicated in the owner's manual, or use beyond the limitations or specifications as published by HONDA.
* HONDA engines or vehicles used for racing or competition.
* HONDA products modified from original HONDA specifications or fitted with a sports kit will void warranty. (Modifications include but are not limited to, sprocket size, gear ratios, electrical loads, carburation, and intake and exhaust system changes.)

I make the disclaimers "I could be mistaken" as I haven't read/re-read the posts where I found the info, I like to be through in my research, not make willy-nilly claims without backup.You have a grand sense of things, and I gather you are disappointed and blame others frequently for your mistakes.Here's some stuff to remember, you're not special (regardless of what mommy and daddy said) those who do their research before purchasing anything do better, this thread is not "yours", and life's not fair.