I Need Power - Whats The Best

Discussion in 'Performance Mods' started by mike@cma3d.com, Jan 23, 2008.

  1. I Am Looking To Build An Off Road Bike To Do A Bit Of Racing Locally - I Have Plenty Of Interest But Can’t Decide On The Right Set-up.
    I Have Petrol Motors But They Dont Give The Umph I Am Looking For. I Am Looking At A 1000w Electric Motor Which Uses The Bikes Gears So You Get All The Power Through Seven (or Whatever Is On The Back) Gears And Using 20ah Batteries.
    Tell Me - What Do You Suggest?
    I Need Power And Want To Set Up Dirt Racing (hill Climbs, Dirt Tracks, Long Distance Events With Both Road And Trail Components Etc) - My Company Is Willing To Look At Sponsoring Events Etc So This Is A Real Potential To Develop Interest In Motored Bikes And Expand The Profile.
    What About The Bike Frame Also?
     

  2. Man the way you sound here I don't think there's a bicycle on this earth that can withstand the punishments of an enduro type race never mind trying to gear it all within a bicycle rear derailier.
    I don't think that's the image most of us owners want to see anyway a bicycle as fast as an enduro motorcycle. People see that then all of a sudden laws in the negative will start flowing our way.
    Motoredbikes should be just that. Bicycles with engine assist not meant to go more than 20 mph. That's why cops in general leave us alone,with some exceptions.
     
  3. HI,

    1000 W motor sounds like it would be above the limit for using without a license anyways Soooo.....
    how about a YZ 250 with a rudimentary pedal setup on it so it can be ridden like a bike?

    Andrew
     
  4. lARGE fILIPINO,
    iNTERESTING VIEW AND I BET ONE THAT MANY PEOPLE WILL SHARE. fACT IS HOWEVER THAT PEOPLE ARE TRYING TO INCREASE PERFORMANCE OF THE BIKES AND COMPANIES ARE MAKING FASTER BIKES WITH LARGER MOTORS. i SPOKE TO A GROUP VIA EMAIL LAST NIGHT WHO HAVE IN DEVELOPMENT AN ELECTRIC MOUNTAIN BIKE (FOR RACING) WITH A 3.5 KW MOTOR THAT THEY SAY WILL EXCEED 100KM. wHEN INDUSTRY STARTS MAKING PROFIT THE CONTROL AND ROMANCE IS LOST.
    aS WITH THE LAW - THE GROWTH OF THE INDUSTRY IS SO FAST THAT THE REGULATORY BODIES WILL HAVE TO PUT CONTROLS IN PLACE TO ENSURE PUBLIC LIABILITY AND OTHER CONTRIBUTING FACTORS ARE COVERED. fACTUALLY THE LAW IS UNDER REVIEW HERE IN aUSTRALIA WITH CLEAR RECOGNITION FROM THE AUTHORITIES THAT MOTORISED BIKES WILL NEED POLICING - SO THIS IS NOTHING NEW AND I AM SORRY THAT IT WILL AFFECT ALL MOTORED BIKE ENTHUSIASTS.
    i THIN I SHOULD ALSO EXPLAIN A BIT FURTHER THAT THE BIKES I AM LOOKING FOR ARE FOR OFF-ROAD OR SPECIALIST RACING USAGE ONLY - NOT FOR PUBLIC SALES FOR USE ON THE ROAD. mOUNTAIN BIKE RACING ETC IS VERY BIG WHERE I LLIVE AND THERE IS A VERY STRONG INTEREST IN DEVELOPING THE POWER ASSISTED RACING SO THAT MEANS PEOPLE WILL START BUILDING BIKES FOR THIS PURPOSE ANYWAY AS IT IS GREAT FUN. YOU CANT STOP THE PROGRESS BUT YOU CAN BE POSITIVE AND TRY TO HELP IT DEVELOP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.
     
  5. aNDY,

    i SEE WHAT YOU ARE SAYING AND WILL EXPLAIN FURTHER THAT THESE BIKES ARE NOT FOR EVERY DAY COMMUTING AND THEREFORE DONT NEED TO BE STREET LEGAL.
    aLSO ALL PETROL POWERED BIKES EXCEED THE LEGAL REQUIREMENT OF 200W - SO IT REALLY IS A MUTE POINT.
    tHE MARKET WE ARE LOOKING TO DEVELOP IS THAT OF MOUNTAIN BIKE RACING AND OFF-ROAD RACING IN GENERAL. tHERE IS AN EXISTING INTEREST IN DIRT BIKES BUT THEY HAVE LIMITED APPEAL IN AUSTRALIA AS THEY ARE VERY DAMAGING TO THE ENVIRONMENT - ESPECIALLY HERE IN tASMANIA WHERE THEY ARE FROWNED UPON.
    tHE MARKET WE ARE LOOKING TO BE PART OF IS THE NEW TREND TOWARD MOTORISED BIKES AND THE OBVIOUS PROGRESSION WITH PEOPLE WANTING TO RACE THEM. sPOOKY TOOTHE HAD A RACE JUST RECENTLY AND PLENTY OF OTHERS ARE LOOKING TO GET IT GOING ALSO. sO IN SUMMARY WE ARE ARE TRYING TO KEEP AWAY FROM MOTOR BIKES BUT OPEN THE NICHE FOR MOTORED BIKES.
    i AM SORRY THAT THIS MAY UPSET SOME PEOPLE - IT WASNT THE INTENTION. wE DO FEEL THAT THE MARKET WILL EMERGE ANYWAY AND IF IT IS SUPPORTED BY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE WE SHOULD BE ABLE TO PROTECT THE RIGHTS OF AVID BIKE ENTHUSIASTS.
     
  6. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    mike,
    you need to fix that caps lock key
    it's too late to be shouting
     
  7. Caps Lock

    Sorry everyone - no shouting here. It is a work related problem as i am working on ACAD in the background and the caps lock is left on with that software.
    After a while you dont even notice it is on any more as i usually converse over the net with other drafties who are in the same situation - wont happen again.
    Oh yeah - ist lunch time here - that would make it midnight for you i guess?
     
  8. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Guest

    If your're looking to go fast, I recommend either a BZM or a Morini. That should provide enough power. Both are hi reving motors that the clutch engages around 7-8k rpm. Both motors are rated over 15 hp. A Morini will give you more bottom end kick.
     
  9. Easy Rider,
    Thanks for the advice. So the clutch has a high stall - that would be useful for sprints and hill climbs.
    Do you know if you can customise the clutch and any idea where to go to buy the motor?
     
  10. Hi Mike,

    I suppose in order to make good recommendations, it would be helpful to know what the rules are for the bikes involved (any rules on engine displacement, motor wattage, maximum bike weight etc...).

    Initially I am thinking some sort of suspended mountain bike....If a custom frame is a possibility maybe a 50 cc Lifan type engine could be used (has gears from the factory)...Just a thought....Of course if the rules called for some racing under human power only the Lifan (because it adds a fair amount of weight) may be a disadvantage....so it really depends on the overall rules as to what the ultimate set up is.

    Hope this helps.

    Andrew
     
  11. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Guest

  12. Andrew,
    At this stage the only real spec's we have agreed on is that the bikes must be fitted with pedals. It is felt that there would be several categories including kw limited groups and bike set-up ie; mountain bike, sprinter, enduro etc. There would be a need for an open section where all goes but again must have pedals and be capable of being ridden. The distinction must be obvious between bicycle and motor bike. Commercialy the racing electric bicycle looks like a dirt motorbike more than a bike and this seems to be blurring the edges in my opinion. I expect the sport to develop itself fairly quickly as it is lots of fun and will attract alot of creative thinkers.
    It is exciting to be talking of such a concept with the expectation of watching it grow into a reality.
     
  13. Easy Rider,

    I checked the link at didnt laugh at the prices - a bit scary at first. However in the cycling world spending 5 or 6k on a bike is only average. I noticed the engine is water cooled - another complication if using such a motor but and i can say the thought of riding a bike with that sort of grunt is very appealing and the obstacles will fade against the desire. The electrical bike suppliers are now discussing the 3.0kw motor mounted on a mountain bike with huge batteries and a 2.5 hour charger. The bike would have a top end over 100km/hr (hmm bit dangerous for me) but they believe the most impresive result will be the torque. Capable travel distance would be 60km.
    Wouldnt it be interesting to see races between electric and petrol - i am getting excited at the thought (i prefer the sound of petrol but the lack of fumes with electric).
     
  14. Hi Mike,

    Given the loose set of rules thus far I would stick by my initial plan....get a dirt bike and rig a rudimentary set of pedals to it.....After you win the first race with this "secret" weapon, I'm sure rules would be made to outlaw this idea but at least you'd have 1 win under your belt! ;-)

    I was thinking of trying to organize a motorized bike race here in Charlottesville (but haven't since I am so busy with my regular work) and thought of imposing weight restrictions of say 60 LBS or so....that would serve to eliminate ideas of taking a motorcycle and installing pedals on it (this would also effectively eliminate the Lifan idea unless an ultra light bike could be made since I believe the Lifan itself weighed something like 40 or so LBS ....I also thought of a stipulation that the same machine be human powered only for a certain distance race distance as well maybe 10 miles or so.....that would help ensure the bicycle aspect of the motorized bike remain intact (it'd be really difficult to pedal the ol YZ 250 that distance under human power....much less at fast speeds.

    The other thought I had was to determine a distance to be raced and allot only a certain amount of fuel to be used.....That way if you run out (as in using a big engine) you'd have to pedal your machine....This would balance power, with economy, with making sure you can pedal your machine....

    Oh well, just my random thoughts.....all kinds of rules could be made just have to agree
    what rules would be good....

    I believe racing would be fun and would definitely push motor biking technology ahead BUT, all in all, before we can race reasonably, I think a good set of rules and regulations would need to be made FIRST to help shape the racing machine itself...otherwise we'd be back to simply putting pedals on YZ 250's and Ninjas....

    Hope this helps....if you do the YZ 250 idea we should split first prize! HA ;-)

    Andrew
     
  15. ultimusmaximus

    ultimusmaximus New Member

    hey mike... i totally support your idea of creating more power on motored bikes... all it requires is a little creative thinking and some people dont have that, but it seems that you are capable of thinking outside the box when it comes to horse power... listen to easy rider he knows alot and has helped me alot with carb mods and pipe mods! go get em and let me know of some ideas you come up with, im very interested in what you have in mind!!
     
  16. Easy Rider

    Easy Rider Guest

  17. Andy - i love the way you think - share first prize.

    Also as the racing hasnt started yet and my company will be giving birth to the sport here the rules as yet havent been defined but i am taking all your (and other peoples) suggestions into account to help formulate the best possible approach.
    We intend to purchase several bikes and stage races amongst just a few riders at the moment to get the interest started in the sport - there will also be free riding lessons for the general public and hopefully they will respond. We will also be selling bikes to interested people following this and other paraphenalia with the aim of getting the sport up and running across all Australian states. Then we will be looking to set up in America and Europe (we will have specialised racing bike sales to all these areas set up very soon) and we will look forward to getting racing comps going globally - it will be very exciting - i just love shredding the dirt with my bike an i know anybody else who rides gets the same bug.
    We are very close to confirming a manufacturing and development partnership with a very smart company in Asia (not China) who make electric motors and they have some awesome gear that is very scary - i love it.
    So keep the ideas flowing - cheers.
     
  18. Ultimusmaximus,

    More power to you.
    I am looking to make a pig using a petrol powered motor and a high strength frame with drum brakes etc. It should be looking at 15kw - it will definately grow smiles. No good for the road but wow easier to move around than a a dirt bike (no need for a trailer just a traditional bike carrier) and more fun.
    The electric version should give wheel stand torque (single speed auto) but wont cost anymore and this can have a speed limiter fitted very easily with the potential option for road and performance mode? Hypothetically you could ride it to your favorite place and then go wild for a while - then ride it home legally - we will be working on this with the authorities. The concept will require the rider to physically dismount and remove a locking device to allow for power to be delivered to the motor. That same device would then also need to be locked. If the police think your speeding or other they can easily determine what mode the bike is in as the riser wouldnt really have the chance to change it. The bike would also have an on board power management system which would work as a data logger and contain power/speed level histories so the cops could prove if you were being a fool - this is the concept at the moment and hopefully we can have the best of both worlds? Also if a rider has a wild streak and owns this type of set-up he is more likely to refrain from going wild until he is in the right place as he has the option - after all cars do well over the speed limit but we control ourselves until we get to a suitable road system that allows higher speed.
    I am looking for any performance ideas and tips as i have a lot to learn. I am a mechanical engineer and work at hypothetical design all day - but the real end of the stick i dont have any skill.
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
  19. Easy Rider,

    That is fantastic news and thanks for the heads up.
    I realise it is not the same standard but skyhawk have a super rat motor - 80cc with a ported/polished head, higher compression and a biger carby - there is also a specialised poo poo pipe or racing pipe - it might be worth looking into?

    Mike
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2008
  20. Hi Mike,

    I have heard of and seen pics of the super rat motor and racing pipe....are those available in Australia?....How much do they go for?....I would love to have one!

    Andrew
     
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