OK, So What's The Problem?

[RdKryton]

Wow Quenton
I just copied this to a folder I have on my computer for future reference. Very well written. Thank you

Jim

PS I still think you should write a book!

 

[Hal the Elder]

Hey Quenton:

That long, highly detailed dissertation left me gasping!

Its just too much for me to absorb!

Rather than go through all that, including possible machining and parts expenses, I would instead prefer to exchange my bike for the one with the slip clutch and coaster brake that the dealer had for the same price, and it was also an unsold 2005 NE5 with one mile on the odometer.

I really appreciate your willingness to help, but this looks like it's becoming more than I can or would even want to handle!

HAL

 

[sk8erpunk]

Hal, I hear you (do you think *I* understood everything Quenton is talking about...lol), but I still say don't give up on your Whizzer.

I thought I was buying something I could just ride right out of the box. I didn't even want something I had to work on and tinker with. But in the process of going through this (I have only had my Whizzer for 3 months and everything is still stock on it and unmodified), I have come to change my mind. I love working on the bike (tinkering) and I love riding it. It is a great little ride if you treat it right. I don't think you need to be Quenton or Bill or Mike to ride and maintain one. I know I am not even close to being able to think like these guys (my brain works in some completely different way--I am not ashamed to say that I failed shop in HS, and it wasn't even auto shop, it was wood shop!!!!). all my moped friends just laugh. they love the way my bike looks, but they see my tinkering and wonder what is up... In the end, I think the more I get to know my Whizzer the easier it is for me to tinker and fix whatever minor things arise (I am also hours away from any dealer, so I pretty much have to do this on my own).

before you run your bike back to the dealer, I would just ride it as much as you can and see how you feel. of course, do what you think is right for you, but I wouldn't give up on it. the clutch is a weak point on the NE5, but easy to swap out if it fails (I had no idea how ridiculously easy it all was), the warranty is good and when that runs out you can always get a modified hub from Quenton. I have to say the Whizzer is not what I expected, but what I got out of it was far more than I imagined. I met a whole group of people who love riding bikes/mopeds and they've become a huge part of my life. My life has definitely changed for the better because of my Whizzer. -- rob

 

[Hal the Elder]

Thanks for the word of encouragement!

I'll ride Oscar around for awhile, to see if sheer use will improve the way he runs. If no improvement, then Sayonara Oscar and Hello Slip-Clutch!

One thing I always liked about the traditional slip-clutch Whizzers was the fact that the engine stayed connected to the rear wheel until YOU decided to disconnect it!

That's what I like...a SOLID lockup between engine and drive wheel! No funny-business going on between centrifugal weights, pivots and friction shoes...just a clutch cable to change the tension between belts riding in simple pulleys!

HAL

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Hal,
You should be nice to Oscar! Don't expect the new edition Whizzer with the slip clutch to work like the vintage version. You may find it far less expensive to upgrade Oscar's clutch [approx. $100.00] than the need for the special idler assembly and a new rear wheel. Many owners have issues with the slip clutch because the clutch handle doesn't move the cable as far as really needed to release the clutch [less travel than the vintage version]. Many find it difficult to adjust the clutch where it will release when stopped and total engagement when traveling. Whizzer dealers offer a special idler assembly called a "belt tensioner" part #3010 and the price is $75.50 to help make the clutch work better. As best I can tell the arm is either too short or the belt is too long, because the belt usually rubs the bottom belt guard mounting post. And I have had several rear wheel hubs collaspe [spoke rings are pressed on, not part of the hub], but luck has been on my side because I wasn't traveling at high speeds when the wheel tried to act like a "wet noodle". If you do exchange Oscar for the slip clutch, please for your personal safety, consider replacing the rear wheel or at least have a bike shop or Whizzer dealer install a quality rear coaster brake hub.
If the dealer will let you, you might condider riding the slip clutch model prior to trading Oscar in, to see if you can deal with the way it works. I have 6 vintage Whizzers with the slip clutch, and one vintage automatic clutch model [1950 Pacemaker], and they all work great, however I have converted all but one of my new edition Whizzers to automatic clutches. And the one that still uses the slip clutch [2003 Panther]has the idler assembly installed. The new edition Whizzers have a different power band when compaired to the vintage versions, and lack bottom end torque, making it difficult to travel at low speeds with the manual clutch. The vintage Whizzer motors have a lot more torque at lower RPMs, and pull like a tractor, whereas the new editions will produce more power at higher RPMs.
This post is not intended to discredit any company, person, persons, suppliers, or vendors in the USA or any foreign country, but as information to help promote a safe and fun ride on a motorized bike.
Have fun,
Quenton

 

[Hal the Elder]

Re-thinking My Position:

HEY QUENTON:

Considering what you said about the new generation of slip-clutch Whizzers and the questionable durability of the rear wheel & coaster brake assembly, perhaps I should reconsider keeping Oscar, even if more expense may be necessary to get him running "right".

Another negative point in trading for the slip-clutch model would be losing my Registration-Free, License-Free, and Insurance-Free status because I would no longer comply with the "Automatic Transmission" requirement stated in the California DMV Form REG 230, which lists four requirements for the "Free" status:

1: Two-wheel device

2: Pedals for human power

3: Automatic Transmission and a motor with less than 2 HP

4: Maximim speed of 30 MPH on level ground

So getting a slip clutch Whizzer would disqualify me from the "Free" status, by violating provision #3!

So back to fixing the "excessive slip" problem in my automatic clutch!

Yesterday, I removed the belt guard and attempted to remove the belts to pull the clutch and "roughen-up" the friction shoes, which are probably glazed, but I don't know the correct procedure for removing the belts! Do I loosen the rear wheel and slide it forward to provide slack? What?

Thanks, Quenton...
HAL

 

[Mountainman]

excuse to dig into something or ride that thing

Anyway, thanks for the fix tip...I'm always looking for an excuse to dig into something mechanical anyway!
HAL

yes Hal - understood - that's how you felt on that day

I was looking forward to the day when Hal's post would say

I am HAVING THE TIME OF MY LIFE WITH THIS MB

sounds as if you are getting tired of the playing with tools and mind

at this point I agree with one of your statements made in post above

it get's OLD digging into the tools when -- you want to ride that thing

 

[Quenton Guenther]

Hi Hal,


I think you should keep Oscar. Oscar is the best choice considering the Automatic clutch isn't that hard to upgrade. 99% of any problems with Oscar's clutch can be cured by installing a quality bearing sleeve. I have upgraded hundreds of Whizzer clutch hubs and all seem to working correctly. I will attempt to supply the details for the easiest way to service the glazed shoes. It is very easy if done correctly, first remove the belt guard, next "roll" the rear belt off the sheeve. One caution while removing the rear belt is be very careful because the rear sheeve is VERY SHARP. Pull the belt towards you and rotate the rear wheel clockwise untill the belt is off the sheeve. Next carefully pull the front belt towards you and "roll" the front belt off the clutch assembly [it is easier if the compression release is activated, or simply remove the sparkplug to allow the motor to turn easily]. Next remove the bolt holding the clutch to the arm [remember what I said in a earlier post about the bolt might be regular or reveresed threads], pay close attention how the washers are located on the bolt. Also be careful because the clutch is heavy [don't drop it]. Next pull the clutch apart [the 2 halves simply pull apart with a slight rotation of the 2 pieces]. You will see the shoes on the side with the larger pulley, the object is to only remove the glazed area on each shoe, do not sand any other part of the shoe, only the "high" spots. It is also a good idea to stuff a rag in the bearing area to keep any of the sanding material out of the bearings. I always apply some good quality grease to the bearing in the center of the hub [I use synt. wheel bearing grease], and re-assemble the clutch by reversing the process. If you need pictures send me an email at quincy163@yahoo.com requesting them. You should also apply some blue loc-tite to the threads on the bolt that attaches the clutch to the arm, and DON'T over tighten the bolt.
The next thing you need to do is ride Oscar and have fun.

Have fun,
Quenton

 

[Hal the Elder]

Will Do, Quenton!

HEY QUENTON:

Now that I know the correct procedure for removing the belts... I'm on my way!

(I bought some Blue Loktite)

HAL

 

[Hal the Elder]

Hey Mountainman:

I'll NEVER tire of tinkering and fabricating with my shop tools and power equipment!

Sometimes I get frustrated when I'm all set to tackle a project and the door slams in front of me, so then I seek help. This is where Quenton, Mike, and Chris come in!

Then when I jump that hurdle, I'm on a roll!

No sweat, Mountain...everything's gonna be Jake, and you'll see me ridin' Oscar to Mars & back!

HAL