p.n.w.- riders. second annual national rally, ocean park wa. 2009!

[Sasquatch]

Uncle Punk says: WA state laws require lights and helmet on all two wheeled vehicles. State laws also require low speeds for these vehicles at this point...

I wasn't aware of this. I'm sad to hear it.
According to Michigan law,

Michigan law defines a moped as a two or three-wheel vehicle which meets all of the following limitations:

1. Top speed is no more than 30 mph on level surface
2. Engine size is 50 cc or less
3. No manual gearshift
4. 2.0 or less rear brake horsepower (measure of horsepower at the rear wheel)

Vehicles meeting this definition are classified as a moped and are registered with a 3-year moped decal for $15. Vehicles exceeding any of the characteristics listed above are classified as motorcycles.

This means that virtually all motored bikes are illegal in michigan, unless they're registered as motorcycles and insured, plated, ect... (my standard happytime 80 breaks at least rules 1 and 2) This means that to ride a motored bike, a Michigan man must have an "F the police" attitude... this probably has a lot to do with why motored bikers tend to be older and "more responsible" in WA. Here we must be crazy just to get started. I understand that you dont want us Detroit boys showing up and making your cops angry and leaving you with the heat... I respect that. I'll stay home. My loss. Not yours.

Augi asks: "this is contributing how?" I'm not just b***hin', Augi... I think that as you are trying to get big attendance and "show solidarity", you should be aware of how exclusivity affects attendance. (its not just that I think you'll miss me.) Every rule is another fraction of the motored bikers who wont show. I understand that for your vision, this may be beneficial, weed out the troublemakers, but thats not solidarity. Solidarity would be safetyfreaks riding next to outlaws... Those who keep the cops away with lawyers next to those of us who rely on flaming rocket exhaust... But then, that wouldn't send a very politically correct message to onlookers about who we are, but perhaps in the long run, its more irresponsible to portray us as a bunch of pushovers who tolerate and follow any and every ridiculous law the government throws at us... If the path to oppression is easy enough they might just take it. If we all had rocket boosters, the state lawmakers might forget about CCs and gearshifters... Follow all the laws they have, and they'll make even stricter ones just to keep themselves busy. They're never happy unless they're chipping away at something.

Sorry to hijack the thread. I love you guys!

 

[augidog]

exclusivity? hehe...yer an outlaw or you isn't an outlaw.

i love this new show "sons of anarchy"...the self-proclaimed outlaw tells the cop he's protected by the constitution...does anyone else see the absurdity in that?

when it comes to mb'ing (the movement, the rally) i have no desire for "solidarity" with outlaws...because by definition, outlaws offer none in return. real outlaws (been there, done that) wouldn't be satisfied until OP was trashed and burned on mb'ers, until me and my bike are outlawed too.

outlaws are self-exclusive...so, yeah...let's DO talk "solidarity"...

if michigan said today that you're completely "legal" providing you wear a helmet, use full-time lights, and obey basic rules of the road, what would you do? would you compromise and ride? or would you thumb yer nose and work to deprive the thousands of families who could benefit from the legal use of an MB?

regardless of WA state or pacific county laws, ocean park has afforded us the chance to show some sense of responsibility to those we share the road with...and i chose to compromise & ride. every day, all day, without fear of persecution or impound. the OP rally could well develop into a working-model that other areas could use someday to achieve legal & social acceptance...you're crazy if you think we're crazy enuff to give this up.

the basics of the op rally aren't changing, we're trying to set dates so we can move on to logistics.

again trying to get on-topic: anyone who doesn't have a problem with the conditions of riding in ocean park, or is willing to practice genuine solidarity for one weekend...let's pick that weekend and...

let's ride!

 

[augidog]

well, then, try to avoid terms like "outlaw" if you'd like to be heard. "intolerant" is another one you should avoid, you figure it out...keep in mind that my opinion of your opinion is similar to your opinion about my opinion. the thing is that the difference in our opinions stems from how far ahead we each are looking....i'm looking years ahead and trying to intuit what it'll take to get us there. offer me an alternate solution instead of argument for argument's sake. in ocean park, helmets & lights are a given...that just won't be changing...that's my compromise with the community i live and ride in. in return, the community is supporting our efforts to build an annual event. pretty fair, overall.

look...the fact that we're debating something as trivial as "i won't ride if i have to follow some basic rules" is all i need to know...solidarity is about "i'll compromise and ride with my fellow mb'ers"...we don't exclude any style of bike or engine during these rides...we made it a "rule of solidarity" to exclude engine-politics, and it was very successful. we've also agreed to accommodate an un-official private swap meet and sale for next year.

so, we've already compromised, and await reciprocity.

give me an honest answer to this trick question:

if michigan (or your area) said today that you're completely "legal" providing you wear a helmet, use full-time lights, and obey basic rules of the road, what would you do? would you compromise and ride? or would you thumb yer nose and work to deprive the thousands of families who could benefit from the legal use of an MB?

so far, i see a proactive effort to "deprive" the pnw-riders of our right to set the conditions of our ride...and perhaps negatively influence those who are waiting for this topic to get back on-track. since it's been made clear you're not going to participate, i don't see any other motivation for your input except to mess us up because you don't like how we're doing things.

prove me wrong.

 

[Tom]

Let' stop bickering and get the thread back on topic. In terms of following the rules, we need to do this while on our rally. If you want to mess around in your hometown, go for it.

1. Safety - During our rally, we will have a lot more attention than any single rider on any given day. We want to increase the popularity of motored bikes and we can do so by not messing around and being unsafe. We want the public to be accepting of us. All MBers will follow the laws during the rally, no questions asked. If you are missing a light and you are riding during the day, it shouldn't be too big of a deal. If you are not wearing a helmet/speeding/driving unsafely, that is a big deal. End of safety discussion for this thread. There is no flexibility on breaking the laws and I don't think there ever will be. Feel free to start another thread elsewhere about safety if you want.

2. Selling - There will be no "selling", but I think "buying" should be ok. What I mean is you can't go around with your product saying "Engines for sale! Who wants an engine?!?". However, I think that if you bring some of your product to the meet to be bought by other members at the private swap meet, that should be OK. Also, if you bring some free samples to hand out or to raffle off, that should be OK too.

3. Date - Augie started a poll here: http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=16025 - Vote in this IF YOU ARE PLANNING TO COME. If you aren't planning to come, don't screw up the results by voting!

So lets get back on topic about the rally. Lets discuss agenda, events, rules, etc.

If you are not planning to come to the event, don't bother arguing about things. Your input and suggestions are welcome, but don't start argue with us about. If you are on the fence about coming, maybe letting us know the conditions that would push you one way or the other.

 

[Pablo]

Perfect!! Thanks TOM!

Now I need to figure out what date is perfect.....

 

[wavygravy]

good on ya tom! now lets get down to it you serious motoredbikers! you know who you are! & I so look forward to more great minds this year! this is goin to be good! i wanna ride my bike , i do i do!!! with a lot more people just like you!!

 

[augidog]

(whew!)

there he is...thanks, tom

so, i've been thinking about the group ride...

we had 21 bikes. i maintained a steady 25mph. i paused at stop-signs until we had bunched up a tad, then rolled on, trying to observe how much hassle it was for each rider to come to a stop then catch back up. this worked pretty well because we only had a few ss's to navigate. but, the sheriff did mention later that not everyone was fully stopping. we discussed it and he did realize it was because we were still experimenting. perfect, this was one main reason we chose the weekend we did, the empty road let us "get away" with a few mistakes.

i'll be working with the sheriff next year & will try my darnedest to get them to help with a temporary "escort/roadblock" at stop-signs.

now, at 25mph, we were (mostly) able to stay together, but lost a couple stragglers due to poor performance. no communications between leader and sweeper, we'll handle that.

if we choose a weekend where we share the place with another event, i don't think we'll get away with a long single-file of 25mph mb's. we need to consider breaking up into groups, perhaps even using different routes. what size group is good, how much spacing, etc...?
________________________
"let the solution be the revolution."
My Care2 Page: http://my.care2.com/augidog

 

[JE]

Some two way radios dispersed amongst a few of the riders might not be a bad Idea.

 

[Zev0]

I have a couple of Marine Band walkie talkies I'd be happy to let the leader and sweeper use.

 

[Sasquatch]

Oh no, not another long rambling post by the Sasquatch...

I dont want yall to change anything. You have every right to make up your own rules. I just thought it would be good to offer a very different perspective. I appreciate what you've done for all of us, and what you're still doing. Personally I would do it differently IF I were so involved, but I'm not. Hopefully my earlier posts help yall see why. I choose to lay back and let older, cooler heads have first crack at the politicing. Not just because im lazy.

I dont watch sons of anarchy. Havent seen a single episode, but based on your paragraph, its easy to see how it could seem absurd, to some, that a person who doesnt follow laws would respect the constitution, even consider themselves protected by it... but to someone who knows that often the things they tell you are laws, are actually against the constitution, so the cops are the ones breaking the only REAL law, by enforcing fake ones... making them the real criminals and making the folks who dont recognise that blasphemy (while they may, humorously, call themselves outlaws, (I dont. btw)) the real law respecting citizens... to one who knows this... it may not seem absurd at all...
*Again, just some philosophy for the sake of thought. Not trying to change anyone's plans.*

As for the trick question:
-"if michigan (or your area) said today that you're completely "legal" providing you wear a helmet, use full-time lights, and obey basic rules of the road, what would you do? would you compromise and ride? or would you thumb yer nose and work to deprive the thousands of families who could benefit from the legal use of an MB?-
Well, that would be a significantly more reasonable stance for them to take than the "go register it even though thats not really even possible" angle they're using now, and I would feel compelled to recognise that rare gesture of goodwill... I would consider some lights, even though the thought of all the extra wires, and the extra weight/cost of batteries? makes me sick, but the helmet is a real dealbreaker for me. I really dislike helmets. And spandex. When I was a kid, riding my bike, I never wore a helmet. (and never got knocked in the head either) The kids in my neighborhood today, no helmets. Maybe I just need to go find a spiffy one like Augis. Really though, the only folks who wear helmets on bicycles, around here anyway, are cops and little girls. If it were legal to ride a motored bike, helmets and lights would make more sense to me. (It seems like it would be really hard to explain to the cop that it's "just a bicycle" if I'm wearing a helmet and sporting motorcycle style lights and signals.) To answer the question, If it would actually keep the cops off my back, I would at least TRY a helmet and some lights, though if I didn't, that would be nothing like "work to deprive thousands of families". Motored bikes were illegal here before anyone I know ever even heard of them, let alone had any problems with them.

I'm just curious, how do yall feel about illegal motored bikes at the rally? What if I have a Lifan 250 on mine? (sadly, I dont.) Just wondering. Any size limits we should know about?

"Keep in mind that my opinion of your opinion is similar to your opinion about my opinion." Yes, true. This is why this discussion is so delightfully interesting to me. (probably not to the rest of yall. I apologise.) We both love motoredbiking and want to see the laws more lenient. (I think.) We just have very different ideas about how we might get that to happen. Luckily I recognise that you should have a chance to try your way first, after all, my way will always be an option and your way kind of has to work from the beginning. So I will stay back here where the cops are probably (or at least should be) so busy they wont care about my bicycle no matter what the law says.

I hope this all hasnt distracted everybody much from the actual purpose of this thread. I hope you all get all the details worked out, and I hope the rally goes on to the liking of the Ocean Park crew.