rethinking expansion chambers

  • Thread starter Deleted member 12676
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So by pulling more fuel from the carb up through the valve and transfers means you loose more fuel that the motor failed to scavenge.. Not sure if that means any more power... Just means you can pull more fuel through the motor at a time without indication that the extra was burned...

I do though know an expansion chamber will work regardless if there is a reed valve, the chamber simply pushes back unspent fuel, which 2 strokes can generate a lot of. Unless you're saying that a piston timed intake results in 0 waste in regards to unspent fuel then the theory that you need a reed to benefit from an expansion chamber just doesn't hold enough water..

Honestly if you have already filled the chamber with fresh fuel and are loosing some to the exhaust portion of the stroke then what's the point of drawing even more on through to get lost... The point is that it's probably a side effect... Yes by having a reed the vacuum effect the chamber produces can suck additional fuel through and has the advantage of not being slowed down as much by the pull (we are talking about pressure waves here, you put a stronger vacuum behind that wave and it will slow down) but that simply means the pipe is being helped by the reed valve. Without it the cycle of loss and having a pressure wave shove it back in there is still the same, and so the flat line basic upgrade of an expansion chamber can still help you gain more power and even select a particular range of rpm to produce the most power at.

We know that the same pipe on a reed valve engine will have a different power band than one that doesn't use a reed valve, but otherwise they both work.

I would say that the opportunity to better fill the chamber more completely with fuel and at a closer to ambient pressure than not would be good if the chamber produces enough force to push a large portion of the lost fuel back in, that would yield higher compression while that effect was taking place.

Mind you you should be sure that the crankcase pressure (which is ultimately connected to the transfers) is low enough that the pressure wave traveling towards the end of the chamber is actually being held back, if it's not actually pulling anything extra and just simply running at the same speed the crankcase is decompressing into the cylinder then it would basically be a bouyent system, and neither one are actually forcing eachother to do anything, and for all intensive purposes aren't interacting if that was the case.

Think of it like putting air in a balloon, fill it enough to be capable of breathing it all in one motion. If you inhale too slowly (such as a slower moving pressure wave, not generating much vaccum force) the balloon deflates slower than it normally would if you just let it go. If you breath in quicker then it can be possible to suck the air out faster than it normally would deflate, if the balloon had more air then more air could be pulled continuously through, like it would with an expansion chamber in jaguars theory, leading to a larger "breath." You can also breathe in exactly at the same rate the balloon deflates, in which case the balloon isnt forcing air into you, nor are you attempting to remove it faster than the balloon would otherwise do, and so you aren't actually affecting eachother in terms of pressure other than you getting lightheaded from huffing balloons for science all day you sick freak.

No but seriously, are you certain that the cylinder pressure is actually getting lower than the pressure at the beginning of the pipe? If you can determine that then you have a solid answer, otherwise additional power generated is just circumstantial, it has to happen because that's the math of the system, by having a valve you give the pipe and yourself the opportunity to take advantage of the additional fuel that can be dumped back into the lungs of the beast.
My pipe draws a significant amount of fuel, but is designed to push it all back in, there is no extra fuel in my pipe after a ride, dry carbon. There is plenty of space in the case(I rhymed it) for fuel mix storage. In short, I think a reed is a waste of time. I rode with racers. They hated them. Reeds tend to pidgeon-hole you into no power when you need it. I'm also employing a tuned air-box, this gives me next to no loss of power or transition phase with the elongated baffle cone. The pipe doesn't hit hard but it carries a long way. I get enough boost to wheelie off the bottom on my girl. She is the same ergonomics as a CR250, so that takes some doing. From there she carries smoothly to the pipe, I eye-browed the transfers to give it more control.
 

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