Squish band

[Deleted member 12676]

>There would be far more benefit from one of those heads than from using one of your ignition retard units.

Hmm, let me see... 5% gain by compression increase, or 10% gain by spark strength increase and correct timing. gosh, it is so hard to decide which is better. same price range. hmm, maybe most smart people will just shave down their stock head and buy the Jaguar CDI to get both advantages.

>Well, if Jennings really said that, that is too bad. He is very mistaken then.

oh yeah, like a simple machinist that doesn't even know two strokes need ignition delay at high rpm knows better than the world famous Gordon Jennings. yeah right

I'm not credible? That's like saying a scientist who discovered the purpose of a particular gene is just making **** up and trying to fool people. I am the one who has provided scientific backup for what I am saying, and the endorsement of someone known world-wide for his motorcycle tuning info. What has Fred provided? nothing other than the "word" of someone trying to sell you a cylinder head. This thread was not about my CDI. I just had to defend its purpose after Fred maliciously attacked it in a desperate attempt to draw attention away from the research I've presented showing a squish band is not needed and may even be detrimental to an engine not highly modified. I fight for the members of this forum right to an informed choice as to what they want to spend their hard-earned dollars on. I have presented the scientific information which the sellers of heads do not want them to see. And for that Fred slanders me. Any fool can see what the score is here. Like I said, I rest my case.

 

[Old Bob]

And for that Fred slanders me. Any fool can see what the score is here. Like I said, I rest my case.

Slander? hardly, the truth or opinion is not slander. Fred has done nothing wrong.In fact Fred has demonstrated a greater understanding of squish bands than I have seen from most others.com iste

 

[Deleted member 12676]

Slander is the right word because he wrote "You are a BSer Jaguar, and to me, your credibility is low." He says I am "talking a bunch of lame nonsense" and showing things like "boring graphs" and "fudging the numbers" and therefore he says to me "you are coo-coo!".
God, I am dealing with the last descendant of the Neanderthal race who thinks I am ********ting by "fluff"ing up my "theories with a bunch of wordy mumbo jumbo and graphs". ha! too funny. I'll bet the big words and graphs makes his head hurt. He also says I "don't have a clue" and that I am "a novice posing as a someone with understanding and authority". whatever

Fabian, concerning that line of argument that if Honda does it then it has to be right. Well, that makes a huge assumption that Honda always puts heads with squish bands on all their 2 strokes. If that was true then that would be a significant point. But lets stop assuming. Find a Honda small engine with less than 140psi and that revs to less than 9000 rpm. What kinda head does it have? Until that is known then this really is not a heavy point of argument, only speculation.

Humans are much more prone to go with their emotions than be swayed with science. High performance items give us all a mini-rush just thinking about them. We love that emotion. Some of us are addicted to it. But it takes higher reasoning to ignore the rush and give credence to the scientific test results published in research papers. Or to listen to one lone voice going against the majority opinion. What's weird in this situation is that one of those lone voices is that of Gordon Jennings who wrote the famous "Two Stroke Tuners Handbook". Why would people listen to everything else he has to say but ignore this one point? Because it goes against the emotional feeling that people associate with squish bands. And people, being social animals, tend to go with the crowd. No one wants to be excluded and despised like Fred despises me for my contrary opinion. I'm different. I like knowing the truth more than I like being accepted. And I am willing to be heckled in order for others to break out of their illusions in order to know the truth. Fred, Bob, whoever else wants to join in, heckle me all you want. Bad mouth me. Tell others I am a BAD MAN, a boogey man, a BSer, whatever. You're just a source of entertainment to me. Show me one single graph done by an impartial scientist showing the improvement of a low compression head with squish band over a low compression head without a squish band. Until you show some impartial evidence I will continue to believe what I do, and those reading this are free to make up their own minds. At least they have a choice now. Question authority, question everything. Be free. Use your own logic and reason. Stop being preyed upon. Knowledge is power.

 

[grinningremlin]

I think everyone should think twice before they support him.

Any one who supports Jaguar is also supporting his egotistical arrogance.

-Fred

First, I only support gremlins, you humans are f'ing crazy!Second, all this crap is so far above my head it's silly; SO let's start with some common ground, you both like bikes, you both like motors, you both like bikes with motors, start from there and work backwards.
Fred what kind of schoolyard stuff is that quote, anyone who supports your enemy is your enemy, is what it comes off like.Neither of you know each other so don't jump to it.If someone wants to hack an engine, that's their engine, so no biggie.If it's crap info they'll soon find out they made a mistake.
Here's something else you both have in common, you're both smarter than me.

 

[HeadSmess]

i also support gremlins, as, without a full dozen gremlins, you cant have a fifanella

im smarter than all of you combined and i reckon yall crazy too

now, i put serious thought into holding a head on the lathe. harder than it looks. i also thought that i have some 80mm billet here.

so maybe ill make a new head altogether. test this squish band out once and for all.

i dont care what jennings says, or what bell says, or what honda says. nor what jaguar or anyone else says, as long as its logical, makes sense and can be comprehended. if it contradicts logic, its BS.

dont try to sell me anything. its annoying.

in defence of jaguar, he has removed all that silly garbage about soundwaves reflecting of the walls of a pipe in converging and diverging patterns from his website. nice idea. shame it was flawed. it ignored the fact that a pipe can be bent and still works.

can we go back to squish bands and have a mature conversation about them? that they arent intended to promote swirl (UNLIKE DIESELS THAT DO) but to reduce the amount of gas at the edges of a cylinder that dont get lit fast enough? the smaller the clearance, the less unburnt gas, the more bang you can get, regardless of overall compression ratio? the final CR being determined by a combination of squish clearance and combustion chamber volume, and the exhaust timing (or closed time).

i think the reason low compression engines have no squish band is because of the manufacturing criteria as explained by one of the "gurus" jennings, or bell... " tolerancing".

you simply cant manufacture that many pistons and heads and cylinders and maintain a perfect squish band without selective assembly.

low compression engines are invariably built to a budget. selective assembly makes for expensive engines.

even "production" bikes with these squish bands usually have such a sloppy clearance that the squish band is a detriment rather than an asset!

also, to achieve a tight squish band AND low compression means you need a large combustion chamber(and/or very large exhaust durations which work against low speed low compression engines)... at some point it has to deviate from the ideal "hemisphere", once again increasing surface area and the subsequent result of not lighting enough charge due to its proximity to "cold" metal. alternatively the chamber is kept as hemisphere, at which point, the size of it simply means theres no more ROOM to have a squish band

its a two edged sword

they dont have squish bands because they are too hard to make accurately, and at a certain point, become pointless. not about performance, its about cost.

modify everything else to suit a squish band first...


ideally, i want to see less quoting of jennings or bell, and more analysis of the processes described by both... they arent the be all and end all of twostrokes!

its about taking the good from here, good from there, blending, and making something betterererer

 

[Deleted member 12676]

nice post HS. Yeah I wound up being wrong about my expansion chamber theory and I admitted it, but all is well because it became a stepping stone for fully understanding its inner workings.

Fabians logic bites the dust.
Here's some Mopedarmy forum posts with info relevant to this friendly low key conversation.

small engines without squish bands:
Puch E50
Motobecane AV7
Honda PA50

Lots of stock moped engines don't have any squish at all. Look at a Honda Express head; no squish.

 

[geebt48cc]

Yeah, guys I most say...................In reading everything, it was getting pretty warm in here. All is good! Uno, it's not like NASA has multi 6 figures contacted on any of us to put a indestructible china engine on the moon?! Hey, there isn't a soul, that has all the right answers related to anything..............period. Just saying, from the small frog in the big ponds point of view. Mr Jaguar, Fabian, HS, etc.............. really have helped elongate my lifes expectancies on this little guided china curiosity.

Appreciate...................

Glen

 

[crmachineman]

Well Jaguar, I still say you are a BS'er.

Sure you are mad about that, but that is your own fault dude! You earned that title.

If you were smart and cool, I would have never said that.

You keep saying I'm not giving any substance; sure I am. That's all I'm giving; you just choose not to listen.

So, for what ever it's worth, I have not heard of any one complain about my cylinder heads! I mean, I've probably sold 300 so far. Maybe about 50 of them have gone on advanced race engines, but the majority of them go on basically stock engines.

Everybody says they have better performance and their engines run way, way cooler.

That doesn't surprise me at all, because that is exactly what happened to me from my testing.

Oh yeah, the testing that you ignore Jaguar. You ignore every thing I have said.

So, when I call you arrogant, it's for a good reason.

Now I can't say the same about your ignition retard device...

There are a bunch of people ready to send me their Jag units.

You know why? Because it didn't really work for them and they are not going to miss it.

Ha, Ha, that's pretty funny.

You see fool, I wasn't going to step on you and your party selling your little product. I was letting you be.

Hell, I was actually defending your product in conversation with a one of my colleagues just last week!

But you had to go and start that BS post about squish band type cylinder heads not being important.

Now you are saying "the cat is out of the bag" "The scam is over"

My gosh! That is hilarious! Hah, Hah!

Oh my god, I'm really laughing dude.

So, nobody has complained about my product, and you are saying it's a scam!

Hell, even with a really good product, I should have a handful of complaints right? That's to expected, right? Well, that hasn't even happened!

Jaguar, why don't you find a real person to back you up?

And I don't want to hear about Jennings. His work is not the most comprehensive stuff anyway, and is he still alive? That book was written long ago, in an age when normal gasoline was over 100 octane.

Things have changed since then. Detonation related failures plague these engines, and I'm not talking about race engines.

All the appreciative people who have purchased my heads are not wrong.

And I appreciate them, but I don't appreciate you.

Dude, wake up and look around at what is actually happening.

You are wrong, don't you get it!

-Fred

 

[Fabian]

Fred, do you have a low compression cylinder head available for purchase, and if so, what is the part number?

 

[crmachineman]

Yeah sure Fabian.
I've got them. Well, you can get them in my ebay store. If you search for "high performance motorized bicycle cylinder head", I'm sure it will point you to a few of my listings.

You will want to get the 7.2cc combustion chamber. It's a single hole, center fire design.

Alternatively, you can get one at my website, crmachine dot com.

Thanks

-Fred