staton 3.11 to 1 small light gearbox

Discussion in 'Rack Mounted Engines' started by fireball_jones, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Hello my fellow motored bike enthusiasts. all the way from Wales!
    Does anyone have experience with this gearbox?
    http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2801
    Im looking at using it for a Subaru EHO35 or EHO25 or similar small engine. chain drain counter clock wise or (left hand drive).

    this is for use on my folder. which I really recommend.
    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/20-Magnesium-...hZ022QQcategoryZ33503QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem

    I would have liked to have used the gebe style kit as its lightweight and super mpg which is what imp after. But as far as I know this cant doesn't work on a 20" wheel but can it be modified?

    I appreciate that there are similar threads
    e.g. http://www.motoredbikes.com/showthread.php?t=5429&highlight=small+engine+gearbox
    and Zomby Builder has a good thread, but they are not compatible.

    and advice /ideas? thanks:smile:

    ps good ridin to all those doin the KC bike ride!!!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 1, 2008

  2. more general

    ok 46 veiws... no posts. lets be more general

    whats the lightest four stroke engine and gearbox (chain drive) setup out there.

    Sorry no friction drive talk i live in wales! we have rain all year round! :cry:
    and snow in winter:cry:
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 5, 2008
  3. lennyharp

    lennyharp Member

    I believe you are right to go with the Staton small/compact 3.11 to 1 unit for a 20 inch wheeled bike. 4 photos of the Staton compact gearbox are most of the way down the page. I am still looking at it as an alternative to the stuff I am using.
     
  4. correct gb?

    Thanks lenny thats an intresting thread. however that gb looks different from
    http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2801
    it is a different one no?

    I assume so As the engine looks like the honda gxh50 from experience which means diff hole pattern.

    Do you know what the output sprocket arrangement is for the gb compact gearbox is? this has me confused, do you screw on a output sprocket?

    if you go onto "The products below were also bought by people who bought gearbox..." it lists this http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=2955 which is an but is it the correct one? and how would you connect them.:confused: as ts not threaded etc

    surely im am no the only one who whats to make a small light motored bike?

    staton offer a semi complete kit here but dont give and detail of output sprocket http://www.staton-inc.com/Details.asp?ProductID=3232:-x
    and we all know that having a motor an your bike without an output sprocket is as usefull as a sack of spuds (potateos)

    The output shaft has 8 mm x 1.25 threads x 10 mm long and the OD is 12 mm x 10 mm long??? what do this mean and to what output sprocket does it fit?

    As i sent several emails to david. and the sales team but got ignored.:-/ ohh well thank god for www.motoredbikes.com:grin:
     
  5. lennyharp

    lennyharp Member

    I have talked to David and he can and will figure out the gears needed for the speed you want with the size wheel. When and if I buy one of these gearboxes that is probably what I will do. He does a great job designing and building the kits, communication can be a little muddled. Keep with it as he offers the best quality of gearboxes I see out there and worth waiting a little for. keep emails going on a daily basis and he will get back to you, i think. PM details to me if you need someone to call for less than you can and I will tell him.
     
  6. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Well...

    3.11 reduction still results in a terrible ratio for bikes.

    Think about it. at max HP for the honda/R-S engines, you're talking 7000 RPM.

    7000 RPM / 3.11 is 2250 RPM. For a 26 inch tire, you should be running about 300 RPM for 20-25 MPH. A 20 inch tire is therefore 300 * 26/20, or 390 RPM. This means that you STILL need another 5.75 reduction (apx) to get your wheel RPM in the right ballpark.

    Without the reduction, you're looking at 133 miles per hour (assuming the impossibility that the engine could actually get to max RPM. It couldn't.) Even with a 6 inch scooter tire, you're looking at over 40 MPH.
     
  7. lennyharp

    lennyharp Member

    He is running a 20 inch wheel. What gears would you recommend there Lou? Seems like a 40 th or so but I don't know the formula to figure it.
     
  8. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    Total reduction around 15 to 1. Engine to Axle.

    If you assume that the staton 18.75 to 1 gearbox works well with 26 inch wheels, then, it's a simple ratio.

    18.75 * times 20/26, yields 14.42 ...

    With a 3.11 to 1 gearbox, you would therefore need an additional 4.63 reduction. (14.42/3.11)
     
  9. appye

    appye Guest

    Loquin. 3.11 to 1 would obviously be a horrible reduction for a bike or any vehicle. This is just the initial reduction achieved at the output shaft before being further reduced by the sprocket sizes.

    I am trying to figure out if it is feasable to mount this gearbox on to my GEBE kit with minimum fuss. I am thinking that with the narrower angle that would be provided with a 10 tooth gear chained up to a 60 tooth gear (providing me with a proper ratio) that the GEBE mount bracket might get in the way? Maybe not.

    I am seriously considering purchasing this gearbox and a chain/sprocket set for my GP460.
     
  10. hello guys thanks for the cotrabution.

    assume we use low rpm 4500 thats what i base my cals on similar power yet les fuel burning any problems guys?

    so heres my calcs (apoligise im only architect by trade not engineer so please keep abuse to mimimum i just used my logic to get the final answer)

    remember based on 20 " wheel

    speed required/desired

    20 miles hour top speed + 32180 meters per hour

    or 536.3 rec meters per minute

    engine rpm

    at shaft 4500

    at output of 3 :1 gb 1500

    meters per minute at 20 mph divided into wheel diameter 1.596 METERS (easier for converstion)

    536.3 mpm divided into 1.59

    = 337 revaloution of 20" wheel per minute to go 20 mph

    so extra gearing is 1500 divied into 337 is 4.5 bhal blah

    therfore using a 10 tooth output sprocket i would need 45 thooth back sprocket

    correct...

    ohh my math teacher would be pround...ok maybe not

    even though now im more than likey going to buy the 5:1 dax gb giving a 27 rear sprok

    cant remember calcs at home

    waht do ya'll think?
     
  11. ...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 12, 2008
  12. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Nathan, the simplest setup would be the Staton chain drive. The total weight of my Dahon with a pocket bike engine is 64 pounds. The pb engine might be a few lbs lighter than the Robin.

    FWIW, my Aluminum cruiser bike with Rockshox fork and Mitsubishi friction drive also weighs about 64 lbs.

    5-7
     
  13. appye

    appye Guest

    fireball jones, how will you mount the 5:1 gearbox? I like the staton 3.11:1 but this dax one is only 35 bucks! I don't see any mounting hardware sold on their site. It also seems that you would be locked into the sprockets and chains that Dax sells.
     
  14. mount ideas/plans

    hello 7-heaven, thanks for advice and pm i might have to consider a similar trans but im a four stroke man sorry. gotta care bout the enviroment and all.
    63 puond bit heavy i think, my bike weight around 21 pounds, not bragging (boasting/showing off) as its cheap i just recommend

    ok appye how to mount 5:1

    basicaly i secure the engine block

    option one: put on the back carring rack and run to freewheel then conseal it in a box etc

    option two: mount to left side of wheel and run to my hd leftside motorized bicycle sprocket then conseal it in a pannier/saddelbag

    option three: mount on to frame tube and run to crankset not sure if on top of tube or under neath please see my links for clarity of bike shape (Using a crankset with two front rings).

    good and bad pionts as far as i see them

    one: simple, low resistance, stelth which give a efficatian t overall ride. and it means i can speed past a load of smug gits (translates to fool who has a high opion of themselves) in expensive bike that where skin tight lycra and shout...errmm.. something witty but MAY not a durable ride only way it to TEST TEST TEST for proof though

    two :good; more durable, give use to 110$ of wheel staton 48 hub. bad MAY be out of balance.

    three: gears cmon i mean gears!! means a much more fuel effcient ride overall which i find important. bad mount postion more than likely to effect riding experience when engine not running

    however havin the parts in front seems to create different ways of being creative.

    appye: and the output sprocket is a standard size shape with most of the pocket bike gbs, ps i like the staon too but a gb with no out put sprocket is as usfull as a sack of spuds.

    so what do you guys think? :-|
     

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  15. appye

    appye Guest

    heh ... It seems you are talking about where to mount the thing and not so much as how... Also, keep in mind that anything you mount to the same side if the bike as your existing bicycle chain needs to be made to spin in the opposite direction. Going 35mph in reverse is not going to be very safe!

    You say you just secure the engine block. But what do you secure it to? That is what I meant by my question actually. It is the engine block itself and not the gearbox that you would bolt to your rear carrying rack somehow? Your language is a little strange to me, I guess Wales has a considerably different dialect than here in Los Angeles! No offense.
     
  16. 5-7HEAVEN

    5-7HEAVEN Guest

    Hey Fireball Jones,

    I hear ya. I still have my 4-stroke Subaru on the side. Actually, the Mits is highly rated as a "clean" engine.

    BTW, in most configurations, your bike may not be able to fold. With the Staton outside drive box, my Dahon folded, but it no longer fit in its bag.

    My bad, fireball, I just weighed my bike again. With the engine system removed, the bike weighs 29 lbs. The pocket bike engine and gear chain drive weigh 23 lbs. So my bike weighs about 52 lbs., not 63 lbs. Adding 6 lbs more for your heavier engine + tank and throttle would bring your weight up to about 50 lbs.

    It's hard to be accurate with a bathroom scale. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jul 13, 2008
  17. ocscully

    ocscully Member

    Are you taking into consideration that the 5:1 gearbox from DAX changes the direction of rotation of the motor? Yes its inexpensive but to make it work/drive on the left side of the bike you will need to add a jackshaft. The Staton 3.11 gear box has the third gear to maintain the CCW rotation of the engine.

    ocscully
     
  18. appye

    appye Guest

    ocscully, oh well. I guess it was too good to be true. I did not know about that. I am thinking about getting the 3.11 tomorrow though.
     
  19. appye...like...dude....urr..thanks.. haha only jokin. so back to business.

    the intresting thing about design for me is how the similar problems are solved in different ways according to the designers available materials, skills etc.

    if i had a welder I would weld something up to the carry rack (which is strong enough for me to stand on (im 85kgs) and pretty rigid.) howeever i dont so as a oak frame designer/builder ill make a plate that fastens to the rack. then i drill holes into this for the engine. ill then screw the engine to the plate. then ill drive the same wedge we use to hold up buildings to get the correect tension. see diagram.

    ps those design are based on the dax 5:1 which is cw.

    thanks 5-7 heaven ill have to do some research into the mits i didnt think it was possible to have a clean two stroke what so ever. and much appreciated for the extents taken in weighing you bike and one of the reasons im opting for the small gb is it means i can fold my bike.

    ocsully: all the design i show are taking that into consideration, let me know if you see something you disagree with. ps i dont like using the jakckshaft. i just think the more part you got the more parts to go wrong.
     

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  20. appye

    appye Guest

    Anyway, how do you make the wheel turn the correct direction then without a jackshaft? Are you going to put the gear on the same side as the pedal gear? Turn the engine around?

    And ... maybe I misunderstood. You are going to design these parts out of wood? You are going to use wedges to keep the chain tight? What about vibration and whatnot? How will the wedges be held in place?

    You have GOT to post some closeups of this thing once it is put together!

    Whoa duuuuude, like totally. Pass me that joint and we'll like toootally like whoaaaaaa urrrrr dude.
     
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