Tucson Police Department Harassment

[RedBaronX]

Out of respect for member toolmanaz68, I've obscured portions of his name, even though it's public record.

OK... first violation is "operating moped in bike lane". That right there is a reason to be pulled over.

Yeah, it's a motorized bicycle, and yeah it can use the bike lane if it follows the traffic laws, but once it exceeds the 19 MPH speed limit, it becomes a moped. A moped in the bike lane is reason enough to get stopped.

I'm sorry that the Tuscon MB speed limit is so low, but the trade-off is that an operator doesn't have to have ANY driver's license. Other states require ALL MBs to be registered, insured, and that operators have moped/motorcycle licensing.

 

[Stan4d]

Stan4d -

Please explain:

"It might also be wise to leave cactus at home.....he is kind of sticky."

OK since you asked I will start with your first post:

This type of gestapo police activity is an infringement on all of our freedoms, not just those driving motorized bikes. All who read this should demand of their city council representatives that that fathead TPD police chief be held accountable for the proper allocation of his funding resources and manpower for the protection of the community. Last year, 113 TPD officers earned more than $100,000 because of "overtime". Now we have cops with so much time on their hands that they have to harrass riders of motorized bikes. Time for the citizens to kick the asses of the bureaucrats wasting taxpayers money when we are all being pinched by the current economy. I don't want cops wasting my money busting people riding bikes, motorized or not!

I was merely stating that with that kind of rhetoric, you might hinder his case.

I will stop there, but at your request I will read and note what you have said throughout this thread. Before you ask me to do that you might want the advice of other members.

 

[cactusamigo]

papa -

"Kelly also found that police don’t have to cite for every possible violation. “The police officer here had reasonable grounds to stop plaintiff for traffic violations and had probable cause to arrest him for failure to provide proof of identity,” the judge wrote."

There is no connection between the traffic violation that the person was pulled over for and the requirement to provide ID. Note that the person was not cited, but ARRESTED for failure to provide ID.

In the case under discussion, There is nothing physically detectable that would cause the bike to be determined not to be exempt. It was the manner in which the bike was operated - excessive speed. There IS a connection between speed and exempt classification. Like I said several times previously, we will have to wait to see what the judge says about this. It just seems unusual that since excessive speed is the basis for the other citations, the officer didn't cite for excessive speed. So far, your reasons don't hold water, in my opinion.

 

[cactusamigo]

papa -

"28-3511 (E)

"Except as otherwise provided in this article, a vehicle that is removed and either immobilized or impounded pursuant to subsection A, B or C of this section shall be immobilized or impounded for thirty days. An insurance company does not have a duty to pay any benefits for charges or fees for immobilization or impoundment."

In that "30 days", the PA can execute whatever he feels is necessary to lawfully prosecute each case. Up to, and including, dissecting the defendant's vehicle in pursuit of evidence. "

Obviously, this does not apply to the cases under discussion, since the bikes were immediately available for recovery by their owners. In fact, one person recovered his bike two days after it was impounded. He was unsuccessful with his first attempt, being turned away because his bill of sale was not notorized. He returned the following day with his notorized bill of sale, and recovered his bike instantly. I already posted this information, so why do you post that there is a 30 day hold on the bikes when there is no such thing in these cases? If the bikes were impounded for a minimum 30 day period, how could storage charges begin from the first day of impoundment?

 

[cactusamigo]

papa -

"I was merely stating that with that kind of rhetoric, you might hinder his case.

I will stop there, but at your request I will read and note what you have said throughout this thread. Before you ask me to do that you might want the advice of other members."

Being sarcastic has nothing to do with an open exchange relative to the facts and opinions of these cases. I don't want or need "the advice of other members". "Advice" about what? I have included questions in some of my posts, not asking for "advice", but for contributions for all of us to have a better understanding of what's going on. All members are free to post their comments or challenges to what others post.

The case is between the prosecutor, defendant, and judge. Spectators are not a part of the action, and can neither aid nor hinder a case. Your remark: "you might hinder his case" is impolite and inappropriate.

 

[cactusamigo]

RedBaronX -

"OK... first violation is "operating moped in bike lane". That right there is a reason to be pulled over.

Yeah, it's a motorized bicycle, and yeah it can use the bike lane if it follows the traffic laws, but once it exceeds the 19 MPH speed limit, it becomes a moped. A moped in the bike lane is reason enough to get stopped.

I'm sorry that the Tuscon MB speed limit is so low, but the trade-off is that an operator doesn't have to have ANY driver's license. Other states require ALL MBs to be registered, insured, and that operators have moped/motorcycle licensing."

You are correct. However, my contention is that citation "A" should be out of classification operation of a motorized bike based on excessive speed. Then, all the subsequent citations would fall into place. It is possible that there is no such citable offense. If so, I don't understand why. Perhaps clocking a motorized bike for doing moped classified speeds is sufficient to cite for operating an unlicensed moped, etc. In that case, there would be no excessive speed associated with the moped. In fact, it's like there is no such thing as an exempt motorized bike once the speed limitation has been violated. That way improper operation of an exempt motorized bike would no longer be an issue. I'm sure that TPD officers have been instructed how to cite for these types of violations because there seems to be uniformity in the routine.

The speed limit for motorized bike exempt status is defined by state law. Tucson has made a city statute out of the state law in order to prosecute in city court. Since it is a state law, and the city of Tucson is within the state of Arizona, the city ordinance must comply with state law. Tucson does not have the option to raise the speed restriction above that allowed by the state.

 

[Stan4d]

papa -

"I was merely stating that with that kind of rhetoric, you might hinder his case.

I will stop there, but at your request I will read and note what you have said throughout this thread. Before you ask me to do that you might want the advice of other members."

Being sarcastic has nothing to do with an open exchange relative to the facts and opinions of these cases. I don't want or need "the advice of other members". "Advice" about what? I have included questions in some of my posts, not asking for "advice", but for contributions for all of us to have a better understanding of what's going on. All members are free to post their comments or challenges to what others post.
The case is between the prosecutor, defendant, and judge. Spectators are not a part of the action, and can neither aid nor hinder a case. Your remark: "you might hinder his case" is impolite and inappropriate.

So from your first post to now is useless in your eyes. Yes I feel you would hinder his case. You are on a one man crusade here and I doubt that you would be able to keep your mouth shut in court. I think you need to rethink your stance on the advice but I will go ahead and recheck your posts.
Sorry if it seems impolite to you, but I feel it is true. The original post I quoted does contain a problem that I now see. I will check your other posts later today.

 

[papa]

cactusamigo,

Let's not obscure the 'fact' that you were the one who started this rant - a rant which attempted to deface the Tucson PD and critize statutes. Of the two, well documented cases I've examined so far, BOTH were riders who had previously lost their driver's licenses. Then BOTH turned right around and got caught abusing the motor bike statutes. I side with NO ONE here, but it seems to me that prudence doesn't drive around on bald tires... then complain about flats.

 

[RedBaronX]

You are correct. However, my contention is that citation "A" should be out of classification operation of a motorized bike based on excessive speed. Then, all the subsequent citations would fall into place. It is possible that there is no such citable offense. If so, I don't understand why.

excessive speed on a MB IS a citable offence-- it's called "Operating moped without proper credentials." Exceeding the MB speed limit automatically turns your MB into a moped. Your friend called attention to himself by riding a moped in a bike lane. All citations are related to his illegal operation of a moped.

Perhaps clocking a motorized bike for doing moped classified speeds is sufficient to cite for operating an unlicensed moped, etc. In that case, there would be no excessive speed associated with the moped.

Based on the public record of the traffic stop, he wasn't operating a moped at excessive speed, nor was he cited for operating a MB at excessive speed.

In fact, it's like there is no such thing as an exempt motorized bike once the speed limitation has been violated. That way improper operation of an exempt motorized bike would no longer be an issue. I'm sure that TPD officers have been instructed how to cite for these types of violations because there seems to be uniformity in the routine.

Exactly. There is no such thing as an exempt motorized bike once the speed limitation has been violated.

 

[Zev0]

Well, it looks as tho there may be more to this then meets the eye. I was just reading the forum about How fast you can go, and there's a fellow from tucson claiming that he's gone over 50 and can easily go over 60. So if that's the mindset in the Tucson area, it's no wonder we're having problems there with MBers.