Very Expensive Learning Experience

Discussion in '4-Stroke Engines' started by Zev0, May 19, 2008.

  1. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Ok, this last weekend I learned a very expensive lesson on what NOT to do with a 4 stroke engine. At least not with the robin/subaru. I got a gebe kit and while attempting to mount the RS it was discovered that a buldge in the side of the gastank would not allow the proper mounting. So, putting our heads together we came up with a decision to lay the motor on it's side with the gas tank opening up on the top, and the oil plug/guage on the bottom. Well after everything was installed and prepped, I took it outside and cranked it up. To make a long story short, after about 15/20 seconds I had an engine seizure. We were under the impression that it would be alright to run the engine in that position. WOW were we ever wrong. After doing some research, after the fact, it was learned that a 4 stroke MUST be operated mostly in the upright position. So, a word of advice to the wise. Don't operate your 4 stroke in any position except mostly upright.

    I got a fantastic deal from Golden Eagle after my bad luck. Since I had already ordered the engineless kit from them for my RS, they let me have a Tanaka 32cc Purefire for the difference in the kit, rather then charging me full price. Now THAT my friends is what you really call CUSTOMER SERVICE. And they never do expedite shipping but when hearing of my plight they happily made an exception to accomodate my absolute stupidity. I have never run into customer service that brought a smile to my face.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2008

  2. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    That's interesting Zev cos i was also under the mistaken impression that u could run these RS/Honda 35's at ANY angle,even upside-down......GUESS NOT.
    That's an excellent deal u got from GEBE & since it's going to be THEIR full kit u should write a review.
    Sorry to hear about your experience but we all know now Customer Service is alive and kicking,atleast with GEBE anyway.
     
  3. That's why GEBE is your go to man for now on!
    That's just awesome.
    Couldn't this engine be salvaged? I mean a slight overbore maybe? Or a head set?
     
  4. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Yes, I do plan on getting it rebuilt in the future, but my main goal is to get back on the road as soon
    as possible. It is 109 degrees here right now and pedaling is now my only means of transport to and
    from work. So quickness is of the essence. Plus I've heard and read such wonderful things about
    this Tanaka 32CC 2 stroke. Full epa compliance with a catalytic convertor. Can't wait. Engine will
    be in my hands either Wed or Thur and I just ordered it today. WOOOO HOOOOO!!!! Kit is already
    installed, so just a matter of 4 bolts and away I go.
     
  5. Couldn't you ride your For...I mean your happy Time for now lol?

    :grin:
     
  6. graucho

    graucho Active Member

    Bummer Zev. But now im smiling after hearing the end of your story. Smart business move on GEBE's part. Now they have 1000 people reading this, this week.
    Yes, NEVER tilt a 4 stroke more than a 30deg angle. you flooded the valve and exhaust ports with oil and there was no where for the air/exhaust to escape. If you only ran it for 20 sec by some luck it may be ok. (these engines are tuff I think the crank/piston had enough oil for 20 sec run) Before you take it in, PM me and well go over for the cheapest way to check if you can fix yourself, or not. Or, maybe you dont want to deal with it?
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2008
  7. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Ok Graucho, when I said it seized I'm not entirely sure that's what happened. All I know is it blew smoke and quit. Now the pull start is frozen. Can't budge the rope. So I thought to myself. Well, it's dead now.
     
  8. Try it again in the morning. Take out the pull starter and see if you can turn it backwards,then try gain.
     
  9. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    I think..

    Have you pulled the plug? You may have only filled the cylinder with oil and caused it to seize. Try pulling the plug and pour the oil out. Then it should run again. It will smoke like crazy for a while. That is if you did not bend the crank or crack the head under the pressure. Try it. Pull the plug and turn it over and pour the oil out. It may run again.. And ..If it does, never ever run a 4 stroke in any position other than as level as possible. Good luck. I hope it works again . The Engines GEBE sell are first rate. I hope this suggestion works... Enjoy the ride..
     
  10. ibdennyak

    ibdennyak Guest

    Actually the Honda GX series from the 21-25-31-35 cc can be run at any angle. I'm running a GX25 vertically now for about 300 miles......no problems. However the GX 50 has a GXH and GXV denoting horizontal crank and vertical crank. The R/S I'm not familiar with
     
  11. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Thanks for the tip Dax. I'll give that try tomorrow after work. But somehow with the oiltank on the bottom, I don't see how the cyinder could get oil to it. But I'll see what happens.
     
  12. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    My point was ...

    My point was missed apparently.. Here is the point.. A 4 stroke must be run as level as possible. A 2 stroke engine "engine" can be run at any angle. That was my point. Keep in mind.. I said engine. I did not mention transmissions or gear boxes that may be associated with some 2 stroke engines. Also..When you turn your 4 stroke engine at an angle, too far an angle, it can cause excess pressure forcing oil into the cylinder past rings and valve guides filling it with crank case oil and then when it gets too full of oil it will freeze and not seize the motor. Once excess pressure builds, it happens fast. Two things can do this, over filling a crank case with oil , or tilting the 4 stroke engine at a severe angle. So..I am hoping that your motor was the latter. I have seen this happen first hand. So I know it happens. It is possible to damage the engine with such high hydraulic pressures. Maybe you will have lucked out and there is no damage. Thanks..Enjoy the ride..
     
  13. Herrmanator8

    Herrmanator8 Guest

    i would just like to inform you all that i know the honda gx25-35 can be run in any angle since it runs under full pressure lubrication which keeps the oil under constant pressure while the pump flows the oil. i dont know what the GEBE engine runs like but i can assume that i has dipstick lubrication and can only run up to a 15 degree angle.

    Jon
     
  14. Marktur

    Marktur Member

    Zev, Dax has a very good point...this happens with RC motors in our airplanes sometimes to...they call it hydro-lock out at the field, but the point is, we pull the glow plug out, drain out the motor upside down, and then it's good to go again.

    I run my NITRO four strokes inverted, but that's cheating a bit, because the oil and fuel are mixed like a 2 stroke, and there's never permanent oil in the crankcase...they do lock up every now and then, and relieving the cylinder pressue is the only fix. I've seen people mess up connecting rods trying to force the fuel through.

    You may just end up with an extra 2-stroke now! :)

    Mark
     
  15. thatsdax

    thatsdax Guest

    True.. there are some..

    Yes.. I know about the GX35. And there are a few others.. These are exceptions . They are used for Trimmers and such. There are a lot of 4 stroke motors that can be run in various positions. Make sure you know what you have. Thanks..
     
  16. loquin

    loquin Active Member

    One advantage of the Honda GX25/35 engines is that they can be operated in any position. Since they were designed to be used on weed-eaters or other outdoor equipment, where the orientation of the engine while in use cannot be guaranteed, they use an "oil misting" lubrication system that sprays the oil where it's needed.
     
  17. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Ok, a million thanks goes out to Dax. You were absolutely correct. Pulled plug and dumped out the oil. Had to pull it a couple of times to get it all out, but eventually she fired up. Killed every mosquito in the neighborhood though, but that was to be expected. Again, thanks for the tip.
     
  18. DUDE! Now you got two engines!
    That rules.
     
  19. Zev0

    Zev0 Member

    Three if you count the crappytime.
     
  20. fetor56

    fetor56 Guest

    Ahh,how soon we forget. :)
     
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