Water-Powered Engines

Discussion in 'Spare Parts, Tools & Product Developement' started by mark2yahu, Jul 18, 2008.

  1. mark2yahu

    mark2yahu Member

    On Youtube, there are a lot of videos about water-powered cars. A Japanese company has a micro car due out in a couple of years, and some guy in Asia made a conversion kit, but some corporation is trying to make him out as a crazy man.

    What do some of you think of this; is it a hoax?

  2. sjackson

    sjackson Member

    I think it's a hoax. I'm not totally ruling it out, because the laws of science have been broken before, but I do think it's highly unlikely.
  3. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    There is a sucker born every minute.

    Of course it is a hoax. If it weren't, don't you think our military would be using it to fuel their vehicles?
  4. azbill

    azbill Active Member

    not a hoax...do some research
    it's called brown's gas
    electricity and H2O make HHO
    2 hydrogen molecules and 1 oxygen
    I saw a friends harley running on it the other day
  5. GasKicker

    GasKicker Member

    I've done some research on this subject and here's what I found out.
    There are online products which electrolyze water into HHO as you drive and then introduce this mixture directly into the air intake of a gasoline powered car. Most claim between 40-60% increase in fuel efficiency and a reduction in harmful emissions.

    My research has convinced me that the emmissions reductions are real, but that increased fuel eficiency is more on the order of 4-10%. (I'm talking about automobiles and trucks here).

    I haven't personally evaluated a particular product. I've seen them for between $49-$110. Canadian truckers are using a much more pricey system. ($2,600-$6,000).
    I want to try to build my own.

    Even at 4-10% increased fuel efficiency, it seems like a worthwhile technology.
    Search Wikipedia for "Hydrogen Fuel Enhancement". See what you think.
  6. HoughMade

    HoughMade Guest

    Electrolizing water and supplementation with hydrogen are a long way from "water powered".
  7. SimpleSimon

    SimpleSimon Active Member

    Everything I ever learned about chemistry, electrochemistry, and the nature of ionic bonds, covalent bonds, etc in molecular materials argues that there is no possible way to recover all of the energy expended in producing "Brown's Gas", let alone provide a effective fuel by itself.

    That said, there have been anomalous results reproducibly found in controlled circumstances. Most striking are the results demonstrated in affecting "spontaneous" nuclear reaction rates amongst radioactive materials. Both hydrogen gas and oxygen preferentially combine to form two atom molecules in nature - neither gas is commonly found as a single atom, it is virtually always H2 or O2 - the monatomic state is unstable (which is a function of their electron orbital shells being "unfilled").

    So, the energy that must be expended in an electrolytic apparatus to seperate the atoms in the water into its constituent gasses is known, and that amount of energy is what is returned to the system upon combustion - at 100% efficiency. 100% efficiency is impossible to attain - any energy that appears as heat, or sound, or radio frequency noise (and electrolysis creates all three) is "lost" energy, insofar as useful work is concerned.

    I've been looking, but I've found nothing credible that leads me to accept water as fuel. Water as a fuel additive, even electrolytic dissociation of water into hydrogen gas and oxygen for recombination as part of a fuel load in an engine may have advantages, but the net cost/benefit in energy expenditure is negative, overall.
  8. darwin

    darwin Well-Known Member

    SimpleSimon isnt this an ENGLISH only site? KISS principle works for me.LOL
  9. kerf

    kerf Guest

    Darwin, let me translate. Today, right now, there is no viable substitute to hydrocarbon fuels for wheeled road vehicles. Sometime in the future there will be but not today.
  10. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Yep, it takes energy (electrical) to break H20 into hydrogen and oxygen. No such thing as a free lunch. Was your friend's Harley running on nothing but hydrolyized water or did he also have gas going into the engine?

    That's the current problem with hydrogen powered vehicles. Where is the generating capacity going to come form to create the H2 gas? Nuclear power is obviously the best alternative to carbon emitting forms of power generation but that opens another can of worms.

    I personally feel that the solution to our fuel issues is more drilling right now and algae based biodiesel production. Here is how a diesel VW paired against a Prius:


    The new generation of diesels are very clean burning and do emit less carbon than gas vehicles. Just some thoughts.

    This is my favorite post: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ldPguephYc
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2008
  11. mark2yahu

    mark2yahu Member


    Yes, I saw the algae-based biodiesel. Algae grows anywhere there's water. Add to that any kind of food waste oil, I think it's feasible if done in mass production.
  12. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Yep, the good thing about algae biodiesel is that it won't cause children to starve in this country and others because grain prices have more than doubled because of ethanol in fuel mandates.
  13. Coming from the auto industry, I have seen and heard of many"alternative" fuels. Water is the most suspicous. For my fellow techno geeks, Myth busters did a gas milage specal a few seasons ago. One of the myths they tested was the water hydregenizer( I think I spelled that right) it messed up the engine.
    In my opion, algie based bio, switch based bio, wind, solar and oh yess nuke are our best bets for the future. After all the original deisel was built to run on vegie oil.

    "It aint easy bein green" K T Frogg:cool::cool:
  14. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Unfortunately, today's diesels (the new ones in 2009) will not be able to run on biodiesel or straight veggie oil as designed due to a very complex emission system. Maybe future ones will once they figure out a way to get consistent quality bio from an alternative source.
  15. Sky actulay the newer deisels like bio better, the straight veggit is the problem mainly due toviscosity. the older deisels dont like bio due to the fact sitnt arebbu rskact ahchitw .lfue ingacre il,ohcla lheehat most bio is cut with methel alchol, racing fuel. that attacks rubber,. the older injection pumps are full of rubber orings. the newer pumps have been upgraded to nytrol, thus solving the problem. The main problem with biois if you have not been running bio you will go through alot of fuel filters at first, untill the system is clean. Then trist me it will by clean. I have seen 07s run on bio and they do fine. If there is any major drawback to bio it is the fact that many citys now make the restrant owners lock there used oil contaners, and hire a "licensed" company to remove it. Then they turn around and sell it toguess who, China. Yess I said China, the are using allot of bio. Why the dont sell it in the us, Three little letters E.P.A. Leave it to the gov to mess up a perfictly good thing...

    " It aint easy bein green" K. T. Frogg

  16. Skyliner70cc

    Skyliner70cc Active Member

    Here is why bio won't work in new diesels (09 models and thereafter)


    With diesel particulate filters costing about 1,000 bucks, I would not want to test my warranty which will not honor anything above B5 in a VW diesel.

    Also, the high pressures in Pump Duese and Common Rail (Pump) Diesel (25,000 PSI and up) used to inject the fuel were not designed to work with the high viscosity of biodiesel. A PD unit injector costs about 1,000 bucks a pop x 4 for a 4 cylidner diesel engine. I don't know how much a common rail pump costs or how much a piezo fuel injector costs for a CRD engine.

    Bio isn't cut with methanol. Methanol is used to catalyze the transesterification reaction to convert vegetable oil to biodiesel. A good biodiesel won't have much if any and that is one of the main problems with biodiesel. Do to use of waste vegggie oil, various types of base stock oils (canola, soy, chicken fat etc..), and other processes, there is to much variation in commercial biodiesel quality in the USA at this time to allow manufacturers to develop an engine that will meet newer stringent (50 state) emissions and run on biodiesel.
  17. (in the artical it states that manufactures use late term injection to burn off partikulates, this will also work with bio)

    true bio hase a very simaler viscositu of deisel, note the viscosity of both change with temp, though be it very minutley

    Ok u cought me over simplifing, you are right it is catalized with methanol, the fact remains that traces of the mythanol remains in the bio, and it stillatacks the rubber in order primalary domistic inj pumps, for fery logical resions the european have been using nytrol orings for a very long time.
    Last edited: Jul 21, 2008
  18. kerf

    kerf Guest

    I continue my one man quest to leave as large a carbon footprint as possible. It is humanity's only chance to survive the upcoming ice age and it's up to me alone to save the planet. I will to continue to burn as much dino as possible, please, I am too humble to accept your thanks.
  19. Kerf you are mi kind of man. my main objective here is to try and keep more of my companys cust on the road, and find a cheeper, non forgin source of fuel.
    besides, there is nothing like a deisel bein chased by five hungry fatguys wantin some of those great smellin french fries
  20. sprocket

    sprocket New Member

    check out kanzious hydrogen, he splits the water with radio waves, which would mean less energy in then out, the holy grail. sorry I don't know how to include the site yet, but it worth checking out. the man should get two nober prizes, one for his work on cancer the other for hydrogen production. thanks sprocket