Do "Outlaw Bikers" Help The Ebike Cause?

[bucvoss]

My new club is the Florida West Coast Wingdingers !

All CC and watt sizes welcome ! ! !

http://www.motoredbikes.com/group.php?groupid=28

where on the west coast is this club. Im in chiefland and would like to join with my trike

 

[moondog]

where on the west coast is this club. Im in chiefland and would like to join with my trike

Hi, Tampa. Please join ! Thanks, Steve

 

[johnrobholmes]

Endless-Sphere... the home of the "Outlaw"

Endless-Sphere seems to be the central meeting place for radical "Outlaw" ebikers and will ban anyone that deviates from that agenda.

This forum seems to be much more law abiding and tends to hold an unfavorable opinion of the "Outlaw".

...it's just and observation.

They ban trouble makers, it has nothing to do with agenda. I just don't understand how you come to these far out conclusions.

You got banned from there after insisting that black people caused our financial collapse, and you didn't even hide your prejudice. Even after many warnings and deletions you kept posting the same thing over and over, so you were pruned.


To the OP topic, the base of many moped rider groups is one of tuning and tweaking. Electric or gas, same group. Gotta keep your ride running, and you want it to run strong. To cut these people is to cut the heart of mopeds. No two ways around it, people will bend rules no matter what the law is or what you think.

 

[safe]

You got banned from there after insisting that black people caused our financial collapse, and you didn't even hide your prejudice.

Subprime was invented for poor people who (in reality) ended up mostly being black. ACORN was the organization that spearheaded much of that "perversion" of our banking system which put pressure on the bankers to drop lending requirements that would have safeguarded our system. (before the 1990's you needed 20% down and a solid work history to get a loan) It was the "perversion" of the system that caused the bubble and then the "popping" we felt.

The fact of the matter is that I was right then and I'm still right now!

At least ACORN finally got busted, so that's good, I saw that one from a mile away... history will slowly show that what I had to say back then was right... it's already happening as public opinion is going in my direction more with each day.

But this is not a political site... you are free to cling to your "Race Card" logic, but I'm also free to describe my opinion.

I got it right...

 

[AussieJester]

I have come to the concluion banging ones heads against a wall is far less painful than attempting to get through to Safe Johnrobholmes REGARDLESS of the law or facts Safe consistently puts forth his OPINIONS as fact and can't be swayed from it no matter how many people try to advise/educate him hes wrong, he simply doesn't listen if it doesn't favour his argument/objectives...tiz wasted breathe speaking to him most of the time...not telling you anything you don't know already though John your one of poor Admins thats had to deal with his carry ons for so long on ES LoL

As John has mentioned in another thread here Safe this site is FULL of members that would fall under your version of an "OutLaw" there's people here running 66cc equipped bikes, tuned pipes, NoS setups, multi gear drivelines to gain extra performance DEAL WITH and stop ****ing people off with your continual "OutLaw" **** its part of the hobby, Its also no different to the people you chastise on Endless Sphere for running high powered bikes, the consensus is the same here as it is there Safe people don't give a **** your the only one that does and yet again its too compliment your own personal EBRR agenda, if the masses found higher powered machines appealing (Your never will happen anywayz) EBRR will be even less appealing to the masses...actually, it would be hard to be 'less' appealing than it is now, can't be 'less' if their is nobody interested now LMAO..

JUST For the record then Safe explain again how you think African American citizens in the USA are the cause for the financial collapse? Please Please Please...Spell it out clearly and as detailed as you can for us slow learners that can't follow your wisdom oh wise and mighty Safe :: hovers cursor over report post button::

KiM

 

[KilroyCD]

This thread is coming very close to being locked. Knock off the politics. Safe, if I see one more racist remark from you, you are out of here. Do I make myself clear?

 

[safe]

...there's people here running 66cc equipped bikes, tuned pipes, NoS setups, multi gear drivelines to gain extra performance DEAL WITH and stop ****ing people off with your continual "OutLaw" **** its part of the hobby, etc...

Well, we were talking about this on my AC Induction motor thread too.

The distinction seems to be the classification of "ebike" verses "moped". If someone obeys the 750 Watt Federal Law then they get that "free pass" just about everywhere except New York. (others?)

If you jump up to the "moped" class then you might need a license in some states and that's what most people here are actually complying with... the "moped" laws and NOT the "ebike" law.

So maybe the question was poorly formed from the beginning... as "ebikes" you can't exceed 750 watts in the eyes of the Federal Government anywhere, but you can exceed those limits if you are going by states moped laws... sometimes.

Ultimately we have to ask what are we riding?

An ebike?

Or an eMoped?

Just because someone rides an eMoped does that make them an "Ebike Outlaw" automatically?

What about people on eMopeds that exceed the moped limits?

Are they "eMoped Outlaws"?

(I'm not even talking about gas powered bikes)

http://www.electricstar.org/inventors.html

"Federal law overrides all States' laws. That is also true with bicycle law. States cannot constitutionally pass legislation that reduce or eliminate Federal law -- they can only pass legislation that enacts additional (tighter) restrictions on its people. Therefore, no State can enact legislation that allows wattages or speeds greater than the Federal Government's limit of 750 Watts and a top electric-powered speed of 20MPH. States can only legislate LOWER wattages and top-speeds (which, to our knowledge has not been done by any state)."

The exception being New York than does a complete ban. (which is really tight)

 

[johnrobholmes]

Looks like new yorkers need a company to provide a moped that meets their requirements. Wouldn't be too hard I bet.

I have always seen my bike as a Moped and not some electrified bike.

 

[AussieJester]

I have always seen my bike as a Moped and not some electrified bike.

We no longer had 'Moped Law' so to speak in OZ as far as i can tell, there used to be alot of Mopeds running around in the 1970-80s but they died out i havent seen a moped since before i was leagl to drive. You used to be able to get a moped license in OZ when you were 15-16 today i believe (in Western Australia anywayz) you can get a license to ride a sub 50cc licensed scooter when you 16 (leagl driving age in OZ for 'C' class ie.manual geared car...is 17 for those in the USA that aren't aware.) So it does give youngins a means of geting mobile a year before they are legal to obtain a 'Full' license for a car. This 'sub 50cc license though comes with all the same legalities as a car licnese ie. writing exam practical driving test etc etc and obviously all the fees involved.

Safe... RE: Federal Law....irrespective of the limit it has nothing to do with the individual riding a bike no matter what state they are in, as i have continually said this federal law for companies to adhere to when producing Commercially Manufactured motered bikes. Continually quoting this Federal Law as a guideline for people is misleading even if the state laws might also have a 750watt max limit pertaining to individuals e-bikes...well, unless they are setting up a plant too pump out 1000's of e-bikes THEN their product must adhere to the guidelines outlined by the US Federal Government.

How about this Safe...Rather than stating the federal law all the time how about simply saying Majority of states in the US have 750watt max limit on motor size. (with exemption of New York...and possibly Hawaii..? think they are ilegal there also?) But whatever, you do what you like long as members are aware i guess.

KiM

 

[safe]

The Downhill "Free Pass"

Let's add a new wrinkle to the discussion...

Granted, there is New York and Hawaii that for whatever reason have banned ebikes completely. (leaving 48 states or 96% allowing the "Free Pass") If we look at what the "Free Pass" says it's kind of interesting.

The speed limit requires that on FLAT LAND the motor alone cannot propel the rider (of 170 lbs) faster than 20 mph. There is nothing in the law that says you cannot coast !!!

Example:

Let's say that you find a remote backroad which is not designated as a highway and it has been surveyed by the local authorities to be safe enough to warrant a 45 mph posted speed limit. Let's say that this happens to be a stretch of road that is downhill.

If you can coast at 45 mph that is 100% compliant with the Federal Law.

...due to the laws of physics if you turn around and go back up the hill the 750 watt power limit will naturally limit your speed to whatever the slope allows and the odds are that you will be at somewhere nearer to 20 mph. (less if the hill is steep)

So all that is really needed for the Federal Ebike Law is a motor that has a "speed limiter" mechanism such that you cannot go faster on motor power than 20 mph before it cuts out. After 20 mph you can coast to whatever speed gravity allows. (and that fits with the posted speed)

The original premise I've had (from the beginning) of creating a sort of "motorized gravity bike" is compatible with the Federal Ebike Law because there is no downhill restriction clause.

Downhill - Limited by either gravity or posted speed limits.

Flat - Motor is limited to being able to get you to 20 mph, the rest is up to you.

Uphill - Motor is limited based on power of 750 watts (at the rear wheel) and that will limit climbing speed.

...while it would be nice if the flat land speed was higher, the odds are that if you tried to pedal without the motor you would not be going much more than 20 mph on the flat anyway. And the Federal Law does not say you can't pedal harder than 20 mph... it just says the motor has to stop "helping" at 20 mph. After 20 mph the motor needs to freewheel relative to the pedaling.

The "perfect" ebike motor would then produce 750 watts of power to the rear wheel starting at 0 mph and going flat at 750 watts all the way up to 20 mph then cut out. You can't afford to generate less than the limit or you are giving away precious power.