Do "Outlaw Bikers" Help The Ebike Cause?

I dont think it needs any limiter at all TBH Safe, as you say it does state

top motor-powered speed not in excess of 20 miles per hour

"motor-powered" is the key wording here, so yes you could legally roll down a HUGE hill (as long as your within the roads speed limit) and be legally within your rights i believe, you could at least take it too court and have a leg to stand on (so to speak) i think.

KiM
 
It's only the motor that is restricted to 20 mph, not the bike.

The "Free Pass" means that you get the 0-20 mph for "free" but that's all you get. If you want to pedal faster than 20 mph that's fine and if you want to coast that's okay too as long as you obey the posted speed limits.

So for the "Gravity Bike" theme the idea works.

For the racetrack it makes more sense to lift the speed limiter mechanism and allow 750 watts as far up as you can go. We know from speed calculation tools that the maximum realistic flat land speed for 750 watts is about 40 mph... so that's a big gap from 20 mph to 40 mph.

And my guess is that some states that have moped laws would allow the unlimited motor speed as long as the motor power limit was low enough.

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What this means is that one ebike might be classified as an "ebike" in one state and have to be limited to the strict 20 mph rule, but in the next state it might be permitted to go to 30 mph under the "moped" classification.

By now you must see the "method to my madness"... what I've been working on is the only realistic way to build around this problem.
 
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Mopeds in Australia WHEN we had the law for them here in 70-80's had to be licensed in same manner as a motorcyle and a moped licence (or full car license) too ride them all fees insurance etc was needed same as a full blown motorcycle.. I guess you could still ride one legally today but you would require a motorcycle or car license and the moped would still need to be licensed, insured and registered etc etc...So it really defeats the purpose of "cheap transport" like the motor assisted bicycles offer.


What IMO we need in Australia is distinct class for e-bikes AND ICE assisted bicycles, maybe if they could be CHEAPLY registered say 20-30 bucks a year for example, but with less stringent guidelines than motorcycles/cars are. In registering you sign off that your bike adheres to the legal guidelines out laid for this "class" Perhaps examination of the bike by Police first up would also be beneficial in stamping out un-road worthy offerings? 100 bucks to examine then 20-30 bucks a year there after ...Obviously a higher Wattage is required i would suggest max up and including 1hp engines or 750watt electric motors. No insurance etc required and no license required, i think riders should be required to be OVER 16 also. This way you could have a 'sticker' on your bike so the cop knows you have paid your yearly fee the bike has been examined at least once by Police prior to registering and the bike is 'legally ok to ride on the street' The government could then get a cut and the riders the benefit of knowing they are legal and wont be harassed and risk fines and can continue on saving $$$ in petrol or doing damage to the environment or what ever other reason they ride motored bikes for.. All fine to dream of how it would be nice to have it but unless a mass get together and actually do something about changing it nothing will get done and it will remain at the pesky 200watt limit and majority of 49cc motored bikes will continue to be technically Illegal to ride in OZ..

KiM

p.s what the **** you doing up so late Safe? you drunk and still awake or you ****ed the bed and up early LoL :p
 
The Universal (Minimum) Standard

I've been pushing this for a long time as an idea, but I'll repeat it once more.

The thing that Australia should push for is:

:D 750 watt power output.

:D Must have pedals.

:D 20 mph motor speed restricted on flat land. (gravity unrestricted)

...and the argument is:

"We (Australians) want to cooperate with a universal ebike standard so that bikes can be made to one specification and sold everywhere which lowers prices and makes it easier all around."

When you are presently choked by a 200 watt limit (ridiculous) this is a target that makes sense (if America can why can't we?) and it makes for more unity between the countries. Once the "Domino Effect" gets rolling you would start to see countries around the world fall in line with the standard and pretty soon the ebike is a univerally recognized thing.

Fight the law... but fight "smart".

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Important

Don't try to mingle the ebike standard with gas powered bikes. The whole idea of the ebike standard is to create a single, easy to understand and define standard specifically for ebikes. If you mingle apples and oranges together then you dilute your efforts.

In America there is NO UNIVERSAL moped standard... none...

To make fun of myself the joke would go:

"What do you call an 'Outlaw Ebike' that exceeds the standard?"

"A Moped."
 
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Important

Don't try to mingle the ebike standard with gas powered bikes. The whole idea of the ebike standard is to create a single, easy to understand and define standard specifically for ebikes. If you mingle apples and oranges together then you dilute your efforts.

In America there is NO UNIVERSAL moped standard... none...


I agree with 99% of what you have said above Safe but i also see no reason why ICE and Electric cant be covered by the same laws. Simply by placing '1hp' after 750watt and keeping all the other points the same both are covered. 750watt as you know is equal too 1hp and it also just happens be the stock standard output of the 49cc china motors many ICE assisted bicycles use. It will be beneficial, in Australia anywayz to get the both combined, ZBox alone (supplier of 49 and 66cc kits) admit too selling more than 10 000 kits in Australia. I wouldn't think there would be half that in ebike riders...But the two combined would be larger 'voice' the politicians would have to take notice of and act. Remember Safe we have far far less people in Australia as you do in America around 22.8 million and only a minute majority of these would use motored bicycles in either form where as the US of A with 305 million people would have a greater number of people 'fighting' for the cause if need be... The larger the 'voice' the more that will hear what we are saying :: wink :: follow?

KiM
 
There are three parts of the standard.

:D 750 watts output.

:D Must have pedals.

:D Motor needs to "stop assisting" at 20 mph.

...how hard is it to design a gas powered bike to accurately comply with that?

If it's possible then that would work... 750 watts is much better than 200 watts...

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From the legal standpoint you just eliminate the "50cc" terminology entirely and replace it with "750 watts measured output" and that would be the way to go. Just dump all references to the motors design (maybe it's hydrogen powered or some other alternative technology like compressed air) and focus on measurable output at the rear wheel. (or driveshaft if you want to get picky)

Universal standards need to be "non-specific" as to design.
 
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There is no reference to 50cc in the Australian laws now as far as motored assisted bicycles go Safe. Anything with 50cc NOW requires registration and license to ride it on the road. We would simply need to replace the 200watt motor limit with 750watt and all 49cc ICE (China Gurl stock setups) would pass the new Law....I wouldnt worry about the speed limit clause it doesn't exist here now why bring it up, all riders adhere to current road speed limits...done.

What do Australian members think of the idea of starting a dedicated thread to discuss the wording of a letter that we can printout sign and send to our local member? Not much point if its just going to be 2-3 people discussing total waste of time, we would need every Aussie member to get involved in this or it will just all be talk and nothing more will come of it...

At the end of the day fellas makes no difference too me but im willing to help others if they are interested in banding together and get changes made. Endless discussions in forums wont change jack, we need every Aussie member here to get involved and forward a letter to their local member of parliament, even then nothing may come of it but at least we didnt just sit about complaining about it we tried to make a difference. I could also organise an online petition that could be 'electronically signed' this could be presented along with the letter. Thoughts on this idea Aussies?

KiM
 
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....I wouldnt worry about the speed limit clause it doesn't exist here now why bring it up, all riders adhere to current road speed limits...

You might have missed the central argument here...

In order to pursuade the government that this is a "good idea" you need to present an argument for it's adoption. The primary argument is that if there is to be a "universal standard" then everyone needs to comply with the same rules. If you start modifying the standard then a manufacturer would need to build bikes differently for different parts of the world and then your central argument is lost.

The argument is:

"All people need to share the same standard. Manufacturers need be permitted to reduce costs and only build for one standard. We (Australia) need to INCREASE our limits so that we can be standardized too."

...it's kind of an "all or nothing" argument. Either you are for a universal ebike standard or you are not and you can't just pick what you want and ignore what you don't.

Is it worth getting a 750 watt limit if it means it comes with a motor that cuts out at 20 mph?

Would you rather stick with 200 watts?

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Keep in mind this is the "Free Pass" standard for ebikes. It would mean from the moment the standard is adopted the 750/pedals/20mph bikes would FOREVER be off limits to being criminalized.

You can still layer other laws for "mopeds" that would allow for more and more of whatever you want... but that's not the "ebike" layer. (mopeds might require some modest licensing... the government is always greedy for $$$)

Very often if you attempt to do something where you "over reach" you end up with nothing. It would be wiser to at least start with the minimum standard and get that adopted FIRST, then wait to push the limits later on.

...Endless discussions in forums wont change jack, we need every Aussie member here to get involved and forward a letter to their local member of parliament, even then nothing may come of it but at least we didnt just sit about complaining about it we tried to make a difference. I could also organise an online petition that could be 'electronically signed' this could be presented along with the letter.

You need to be clear what your argument is because the legal profession will rip you to shreds if you haven't focused hard enough. The advantage of adopting a standard 100% is that all the thinking/arguing/debating has already been done on it... all you need to do is get a rubber stamp of approval.

The Federal Ebike Law in America was a NEW CREATION... and was not simply a modification of anything that previously existed. Australia needs to think of this new standard along the same lines, that it's "new" and has it's own logic to it. We still have all the old mangled moped laws sprinkled across all the states often being contradictory to each other. The old stuff was a mess.
 
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