My hybrid/tribrid

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by Flapdoodle, May 23, 2009.

  1. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    I got my hybrid (or tribrid) running.

    I could not think of a way to make a dual throttle, so I used an old shift lever to make a thumb throttle. It is mounted under the bar so I can activate if as I twist the electric throttle. Other than that it was a straight forward installation.

    There is a page for the bike here:
    http://flapdoodle.250free.com/80cc.html

    hybrid-1.jpg

    Weight breakdown (I weigh 170)
    Bike ~55#
    E-motor 14.5#
    Batteries 28.5#
    Gas engine ~20#
    Total 118#

    Cost breakdown
    Bike $66
    motor 149 including shipping
    E-motor 375
    Total $ 590
    (however there were other items that were added because I wanted to)

    I considered the charge voltage too high with the included charger and adjusted it downward with the tiny pot next the output cable to cut off at 41 volts.

    On the first test I got it up to 17 mph on a slight upgrade and a good headwind (NWS said 21 mph) on electric only. More testing will be posted here when it quits raining.

    My driveway is loose gravel that has never allowed me to drive on it using gas, but I can now using electric only. (There was an SUV, and a Harley get stuck in the gravel).

    The motor has three heavy wires that I assume are power, though actually they look a bit light for 600 watts (600/36=16.6 amps). I plan to replace them with heavier gage wire eventually.

    There are 4 lighter wires I think are control. Rotating the wheel with a digital voltmeter indicated a disappointing 7 volts. Maybe it needs a control voltage to make it work? It does have electric braking capabilities, and electronic cruise control that I have yet to figure out how to make work. May have to disassemble the controller and trace out the circuit to learn what makes it tick.
     

  2. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Did the battery pack come with the motor?,what type batteries &capacity?.Why the hybrid setup,climbing hills?.This may be 3 phase variable freq. synchronous motor ,hence 3 power cables.BTW the current in each is about 0.6 of the dc current for the same power.Your bike looks pretty spiffy!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 23, 2009
  3. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    3 SLA 12v, 12A batteries came with it.
    I am not too able anymore, and the electric gets me out to the road and gets the gas engine started. Also nice in town with frequent stops, plus peace of mind in the gas quits in town (7 miles away).

    Nearest hill is quite some distance from me. This is high plains and flat as a pancake as far as you can see.

    Thanks for the suggestion on the three wires, and I bet you are right. It acts like a synchronous motor.
     
  4. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    Yes! That's looking good, you did a nice job with that.
    It's really great to see this kind of innovation going on here and that's a heck of a package for under $600.

    I'm curious on the 55# bike weight. What do you reckon the bike weighed before you added anything?
     
  5. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    These synchronous jobs are actually pretty nice,the motor is quite simple,no commutators brushes etc.The complications are in the electronics,which as you&I know are quite reliable
     
  6. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    Thanks! I think that was the weight as it came from WalMart. If I had known I would like MB-ing so much I would have got a better model.

    BTW, the wheelbase is 2" shorter than most bikes.
     
  7. Happy Valley

    Happy Valley Active Member

    That seems heavy Bill, just for the bike. It would be interesting to get her on a scale somehow, you might be surprised you're coming in lighter than you think.
     
  8. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    First I went to WalMart online to see what the weight is. No luck. Discontinued.

    Digital bath scale gives 37.5 front and 76.5 rear with gas and tools for a total of 114 pounds. It has bigger tires, better seat, and fenders so the original weight was ~40-45#
     
  9. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    On the flats weight is not all THAT important,except when getting up to speed.&braking.But here in the hills of VA,where the only flat stretches are at the bottom&top of hills,it's a rather different story
     
  10. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    I got a chuckle from that. Used to live in Eastern Oregon where if you were not going up, you were going down. If you were not turning left, you were turning right. One hairpin curve was so tight I could swear I could see my own tail lights.

    The road signs were humorous. On a road that was shaking my car apart... "rough road ahead". On one that I could barely keep the wheels on the pavement... "Road narrows"
     
    Last edited: May 23, 2009
  11. Danny3xd

    Danny3xd Member

    Awesome build Flap! Really like the gas gauge, chain breaker mod and air filter.
     
  12. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    Thanks Danny.

    I rode to Bitter Lake Wildlife Refuge and the first compatibility issue arose. When the Happy Time starts, the e-motor stops working. Best it will do is a funny lurch at low e-throttle.

    I am certain the problem is electrical interference, and the solution is shielding the 4 control wires to/from the hub motor.

    My concern is minimal since the e-motor is mostly to keep me from getting stranded.
     
  13. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    The control signal wires are in the same cable coming out of the motor as the A-B-C wires, but separated from the connector to the controller. I will correct that and shield the control wires. All cables will be shortened and the controller mounted on the frame in front of the diamond.

    The power wires (battery to controller) were ridiculously light, maybe 20 gauge, and will be replaced. The three A-B-C wires will be doubled. I notice other brands have VERY heavy wires.

    The controller chip is an HA3089-1 which appears to be a PIC microprocessor.

    This is supposed to be the schematic, or is very close to it:
    http://www.kraeuterbutter.at/Bilder2/Radnabenmotor_Vorderreifen/Schaltplan.gif

    The control signal wires are in the same cable coming out of the motor as the A-B-C wires, but separated from the connector to the controller. I will correct that and shield the control wires. All cables will be shortened and the controller mounted on the frame in front of the diamond. The control signal wires are in the same cable coming out of the motor as the A-B-C wires, but separated from the connector to the controller. I will correct that and shield the control wires. All cables will be shortened and the controller mounted on the frame in front of the diamond.

    Bill (Flap)
     
    Last edited: May 25, 2009
  14. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    It might be better and easier to treat the HT engine.What is your kill switch setup using white or blue wire?.Most likely magnetic fields, ordinary RF shielding not all that effective.Using white wire much safer from standpoint of EMI potential.
     
  15. the roadmaster sx sport is 45.2lbs
     
  16. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    I considered that, but having the wires from the hall effect transistors in the same bundle as the power (Which carries either sine wave, or trapezoidal waves depending on mode) needs to be corrected. Also it worries me that the wires are too light. Cables are much longer than necessary in places, and too short going into the controller from the battery box. Anyhow, it will give me peace of mind if I make changes. May also add a fuse to the power from the battery.

    Thanks for the input. This is a learning experience for me.
     
  17. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    Thanks!
     
  18. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Using a shorting switch to frame ground in the blue wire is not a good idea,al sorts of elct.junk on there.This magnetic coupling involves,induction into LOOPS,so anything with frame as the elct. dumping ground thus creating a loop is more susceptible,twisting wires to reduce the mutual coupling helps as does separating circuits,the 5V sensor line from the motor is probably quite vulnerable.Good luck.
     
  19. Flapdoodle

    Flapdoodle Member

    I agree. Built mine with a switch that opens the blue wire to kill it.
     
  20. duivendyk

    duivendyk Guest

    Try WW if it does the job use that instead.The elct. junk on BW goes all the way to killswitch up front &back.If still used twist wires to reduce magn.field.Use single grnd for ign.at motor.Watch out for ground loops too (using frame grounds ),The micro it self can get messed up directly also.