OK, Let's Get Crazy About 2 Stroke Racing Oils

[Deleted Member 4613]

Here we go:
This discussion is relevant for performance above 10,000 rpm or
for engines that tend to overheat. Such a user needs high temperature
resistance, and this is nomally reflected in the flash point of the
oil, which is found in the Materials Safety Data Sheet (MSDS).
The flash point is the temperature at which the liquid begins to
become volatile or vaporize. The higher the flash point, the
higher the resistance to heat and oxidation. The highest temperature
resistant oils have the highest flash points and contain the most amount of
a synthetic ester. Some 2 stroke oils only contain some ester
and some are 100% synthetic ester based. So, and initial
comparison of some 2 stroke oils looks like this; some
have crazy high flash points for operation in extreme high
heat conditions like racing:

Red Line 2 Stroke Racing Oil, Flash Point 217 degrees F
Amsoil Dominator, Flash Point 201 degrees F
Lucas Semi-Synthetic, Flash Point 182 degrees F
Bel-Ray H1 Racing 100% Synthetic Ester 2T, Flash Point 395 degrees F
Motul 800 2T Factory Line Road Racing, 525 degrees, 100% Ester
Motul Kart Grand Prix 2T, 100% Ester, 492.8 degrees F

Obviously, there's more to oil properties that are important, like detergency, viscosity,
rust prevention, price, and availability, but flash point is a good start to evalauate
an oil for heat resistance. It could be the difference between piston seizures, and
unwanted black deposits, and successful operation at higher temperatures.

 

[GW's Motorized]

Just curious, is there a website with all this information already there? Or is this gathered from the manufacturer? Thanks

 

[ImpulseRocket]

You may want to clean up the mess caused by the copy and paste used to make this post.

 

[DAMIEN1307]

You may want to clean up the mess caused by the copy and paste used to make this post.

Just curious, is there a website with all this information already there? Or is this gathered from the manufacturer?

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

Yes, this information was gathered from various sites, but
this is the best one to my knowledge:

All About 2 Stroke Engine Oils

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

You may want to clean up the mess caused by the copy and paste used to make this post.

No copy and paste used here.

 

[DAMIEN1307]

Yes, this information was gathered from various sites, but
this is the best one to my knowledge:

All About 2 Stroke Engine Oils

No copy and paste used here.

Good, Now it's my turn for copy and paste, direct from the article you have submitted.

I did a careful read through and took note of these little ditties starting about a third of the way down the page.

Take note that both Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil or Redline racing oil did NOT make his - - - - BEST RACING OILS - - - - - list. However, Amsoil was on his "Best Oils" list....Red Line Racing Oil was NOT, Just Redlines "Red Line AllSport".

From the article you provided;

OILS I WON'T LIST IN MY RATIO CALCULATOR due to an artificial viscosity.........

Red Line Two Stroke Racing Oil (data: #1 #2)
Cost: $31.00/liter
under 25% group 1 oil (CAS 68334-05-4) and under 25% group 1 oil (CAS 64742-47-8) and probably another 30% of unlisted synthetic oil
Viscosity @ 200/100/40ºC 10.2/42.3/191 mm2/s, viscosity index 272, density .91, 147ºC flash point
Note: this oils 200C viscosity exceeds any of the best oils by at least three times as much, and with around 30% of synthetic oil and around 40% of the cheapest oil (group 1) I think the 6% added polymer in their product artificially tripled the viscosity (if it's not just a lie). It is known that Polyisobutene (PIB) increases viscosity greatly but doesn't increase the protection because it isn't a lubricant. So this is just listed here as an example of the advantage of researching a product. With these tripled viscosities it is useless to input them into my oil ratio calculator to see what ratio it should be used at.

They also had another Red Line oil mentioned in his "Won't list due to artificial viscosity"....Amsoil seems to have passed his TRUE viscosity testing methods as he didn't list any of the Amsoil products on his "Artificial Viscosity list.

I also noticed that Amsoil Dominator Racing Oil was on his top Low Ash List.

He also mentions why viscosity factors is of PRIMARY IMPORTANCE.

Here's some quotes emphasizing how viscosity is of primary importance:

Viscosity is the single most important physical property of a lubricant. It is a crude measure of a lubricant's molecular constitution from the standpoint of hydrocarbon chain size. Viscosity determines film thickness and film strength. http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/28956/lubricant-viscosity-index

Viscosity of a fluid is a measure of its resistance to gradual deformation by shear stress or tensile stress. http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/dynamic-absolute-kinematic-viscosity-d_412.html

Viscosity is very important because it affects the oil's ability to reduce friction and transfer heat.

What is Oil Viscosity a.k.a. Oil Weight? - oilspecifications.org

www.oilspecifications.org

An oils first line of defense is its viscosity (thickness). The ability of the oil film to prevent contact between the rings and the cylinder is a function of an oils viscosity. Generally speaking, the more viscous or thicker an oil, the greater load it will carry.

http://www.aijiuyujia.com/best-2-stroke-motorcycle-oil.pdf

To double check I spoke on the phone with Joey Cabrera at Motul and he assured me that I was on the right path by thinking that the principle consideration is the final mixed viscosity. He also assured me that viscosity index and flash point are indicators of the quality of the product. (A low flash point temperature usully indicates a fair amount of group 1 oil or added solvent.)

On his best oils list, Amsoil Dominator as well as all of the other Amsoil 2 stroke oils are on the list...Red Line 2 stroke racing oil did not make the list at all...Only the Red Line All Sport oil made the list.

This is what was said about Red Line:

Redline: This was a strange oil. The piston and cylinder looked good, with minor shiny spots but no scuffing, and everything was reasonably clean and well-lubed. But this oil actually left surface rust on the crank wheels, and tarnished the carb brass. It also had a tendency to gum up the carb jets for some reason. How a metal surface can be both oily and have rust on it is beyond me, but clearly this oil lacks any proper corrosion-inhibitors, or it is so rich in esters that it absorbs huge amounts of moisture from the air. I would never use it again, nor could I recommend it. [someone has commented on this that the gasoline this guy used probably had ethanol in it because when he (the commentator) used Redline with non-ethanol gas then no corrosion happened]

I now hope this discussion of so-called best oils is now at an end...DAMIEN

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

It's not a question of whose turn it is. I'm not interested in
argument, just posting information for members in general
to consider when selecting a 2 stroke oil. Since 2008, I have
posted information on many topics. Oil is just another
topic to me, like conversion of 4 stroke belt drives to
Oilite bushings and bearings. And I didn't copy and paste.
I am a former degreed oil chemist with a big oil company who
worked on developing lubricants, so I have some
expertise in the field.

 

[Amwicr]

The whole conversation went over my head

 

[DAMIEN1307]

It's not a question of whose turn it is. I'm not interested in
argument,

I was just being every bit as snide, condescending, and facetious as you 'appeared' to have been towards me in the past is all, but I am exceedingly glad that your not interested in argument this time around.

I am also glad that this time, you have chosen a source that appears to be unbiased, with what appears to be scientifically sound conclusions in its assessments this time around as compared to just citing Red Lines biased reports as we all took some exception to that the last time around...I found it quite refreshing.

So refreshing that I merely highlighted some very good points that your sources used in coming to their final analysis, in particular, some major differences between the two brands of oils we have previously "reviewed".