Best Racing Two Stroke Oil

[Chainlube]

OK, so let's look at this Dominator Synthetic 2 Stroke Oil: Do the specifications
report passing of any tests? No. Makes a lot of claims but no test reports.
Now let's compare it to the Red Line Racing Oil: Here's a direct comparison
between the Amsoil Dominator Oil and the Red Line, showing the Red Line to out
perform the Dominator. The Red Line achieved the best test results against
all competitors, a rating of 9.6 compared to the Amsoil of 8.0. Bicycle engines
reports the stock Phantom to achieve over 3 hp. What does that mean?
California Motorbikes reports its Wildcat Minarelli Ultra to achieve 6 hp.
So what are we to assume? It looks like the Phantom produces about half the
HP than the Minarilli. Out of the box, the Phantom is not a racing engine.

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/2_STROKE_RACE_OIL_TEST.pdf

That's only a advertisement made by the product producer, really no proof if true.

 

[Chainlube]

I run Amsoil Dominator in my Athena sport and hyper Minarelli engines.
It must pass the test because I run the crap out of my engines and have never had heat or seizing problems.
My set up is 16” wheels on 10/36 gear.
I’ve run mine above 11k quite a bit.

I run Yamalube 2, good enough for motocross racing, right?

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

No the stated test results by Red Line are not an advertisement. The
Red Line just performed better in the tests than all other lubes,
including the Amsol product. It's expensive though, but well
worth it, and used widely. I see Yamalube performed poorly
in the tests.

 

[GW's Motorized]

OK, so let's look at this Dominator Synthetic 2 Stroke Oil: Do the specifications
report passing of any tests? No. Makes a lot of claims but no test reports.
Now let's compare it to the Red Line Racing Oil: Here's a direct comparison
between the Amsoil Dominator Oil and the Red Line, showing the Red Line to out
perform the Dominator. The Red Line achieved the best test results against
all competitors, a rating of 9.6 compared to the Amsoil of 8.0. Bicycle engines
reports the stock Phantom to achieve over 3 hp. What does that mean?
California Motorbikes reports its Wildcat Minarelli Ultra to achieve 6 hp.
So what are we to assume? It looks like the Phantom produces about half the
HP than the Minarilli. Out of the box, the Phantom is not a racing engine.

https://www.redlineoil.com/Content/files/tech/2_STROKE_RACE_OIL_TEST.pdf

The reason why the phantom claims "over 3hp" is for legal reasons. Fresh out of the box a phantom runs 5hp, and gains more with a high flow air filter(prooven to increase hp by .5hp) and a gain after brake in. The wildcat minarelli also only comes as just the engine and it depends on what you add to it that determines the HP.

As for your argument about oil, if those tests were done by red line who knows if the numbers are skewed to make it look better. It's not false advertisement of you cheat the by numbers of there products.

No one here can disprove your claims, nor do we need to. You made a statement about high performance racing oil, we were just trying to help add to that list in order to give whoever reads this options. Some people like certain oil brands to others, so listing multiple is better than saying one is the best.

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

I'm not sure who did the Red Line tests, but I doubt Red Line did the
tests. It likely was an outside test firm. Red Line is a reputable company.
I don't think they would have interest in cheating. And it's not MY
CLAIMS. I'm just reporting the data.
Watch this video, as DLH assembles a performance minarelli engine and uses Red
Line lube during the assembly. Apparently, he's aware of Red Line
performance.

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

If the Phantom 85 is 5hp out of the box, then I stand corrected but it is
about 1-2 hp less than the Minarelli.

 

[ImpulseRocket]

If the Phantom 85 is 5hp out of the box, then I stand corrected but it is
about 1-2 hp less than the Minarelli.

The phantom is indeed 5hp out of the box. Stock muffler, cheap little Bofeng carb, and OZ reed. They make almost 6 if converted to piston port, still running the Bofeng and a reedless reed. Put a pipe on one, not even a good one, and they slip the clutch with zero effort.

Comparing them to a Minarelli build is apples to oranges. Very different.

I would make the argument that a warmed over Phantom like mine - port matched intake and reed block (a big restriction at the intake flange), a .9mm squish gap (nearly 2mm on stock Phantom), and a little other minor port matching and minor adjustments, is probably harder on the oil.

Why? The Phantom makes peak torque at 3500rpm - 4.5lb/ft - with a nice slow linear descent. Hp peaks around 9000 to 9500, and they have zero issue revving to 12k rpm. That's on a stock V3. The V2 and V1 ports actually make a little more power up top.

The Phantom is also a notoriously hot running engine. Much like a lot of Minarelli builds making similar power, they will soft size if pushed hard for any real length of time, even with good carb tuning.

High quality oil is only a band-aid for the real issue, which in both engines is poor cooling capacity. Both cylinder designs are from forced air applications, and lack proper fin density/surface area for their power and passive cooling.

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

The phantom is indeed 5hp out of the box. Stock muffler, cheap little Bofeng carb, and OZ reed. They make almost 6 if converted to piston port, still running the Bofeng and a reedless reed. Put a pipe on one, not even a good one, and they slip the clutch with zero effort.

Comparing them to a Minarelli build is apples to oranges. Very different.

I would make the argument that a warmed over Phantom like mine - port matched intake and reed block (a big restriction at the intake flange), a .9mm squish gap (nearly 2mm on stock Phantom), and a little other minor port matching and minor adjustments, is probably harder on the oil.

Why? The Phantom makes peak torque at 3500rpm - 4.5lb/ft - with a nice slow linear descent. Hp peaks around 9000 to 9500, and they have zero issue revving to 12k rpm. That's on a stock V3. The V2 and V1 ports actually make a little more power up top.

The Phantom is also a notoriously hot running engine. Much like a lot of Minarelli builds making similar power, they will soft size if pushed hard for any real length of time, even with good carb tuning.

High quality oil is only a band-aid for the real issue, which in both engines is poor cooling capacity. Both cylinder designs are from forced air applications, and lack proper fin density/surface area for their power and passive cooling.

Well since both engines run hot and can seize if pushed too hard, if I had one, I
certainly would want the best top line synthetic oil, though like you say, it's more of an
engineering issue than a lubrication problem.

 

[Deleted Member 4613]

Here's a video of soft seizing of the Minarelli engine, but the builder
used a cast iron cylinder matched to an aluminnum piston which
is a mistake.