Triple Rewind of Unite 500W Motor

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The Electric Bicycle Race

I will be holding an electric bicycle race here in Chch, NZ. In approx Dec.

I have a few ideas about the rules but am open to all classes.

I figure we have " first to 20". No restriction on anything. First to 20 wins.

I also figure we have a "no pedals" class as above.

No restrictions quarter mile should be fun too.

This is just the start...................
 
I think you have to look at your drive train in terms of available.transmission reduction range and the preferred motor rpm range).Overall efficiency will improve if you manage to keep motor rpm in the top 25 % range.See how this meshes with the drive train & total speed range,trying to stay out of the low rpm high motor current range as much as possible,rather like driving a stick shift car,and not overtorque (current) the motor.The question also: Where is the emphasis, on range or on speed?
 
NZ is New Zealand right?

Don't they use kilometers there? Does he mean 0-20 km or 0-20 mph?

Anyway... it shouldn't be too hard to gather all the information about any bike you might select and arrive at a custom winding solution that would be ideal for such a race.

I'd just use a one speed... no gears needed.

In general for drag races you just want lot's of power... efficiency and range isn't so important.

Is there a question about rewinding?
 
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Yes, the answer to Safe's 'ideal wind config' will be arbitrary and only reflect his preferences for the outcome. It's been a righteous bunch of experiments, though, exploring the relationship between various configurations and what they deliver.

Is it practical as a way of tweaking a motor? That really depends on the value of your time. Armature winding as a profession is well paid for a reason. It sounds really fiddly and highly technical. Easy to make one wrong turn and end up feeling like AussieJester (if that was what happened). But Safe has found it rewarding enough to do a lot of it. He could probably make a side income rewinding people's industrial motors now :).

Other people might find it a lot easier to just buy a more powerful, or more efficient motor, depending on their requirements.

End of the day, no matter how much tweaking goes on, range and power are going to be in tension. If you aim for maximum power, you sacrifice range. There is no limit to this - Safe could aim for a 100KW bike, for total overkill, and with the right configuration I'm sure an inventive guy like him is going to be able to get that. But it won't go very far, unless it has lots and lots of batteries, which will eat into the acceleration and range with their weight, not to mention the handling.

It would be nice to get the best of both worlds with some kind of switch, between an economic and a powerful mode. I would love that - there are times for both. But I don't know how it can be done - obviously the lighter the bike, the easier it is to be economic, but that means less batteries, and/or a smaller motor. Also, the smaller and weaker the bike, the more frail and under-engineered it can be. There's no way I want to be going 100kmh on my bike - it could easily come apart in some silly way, and it certainly would need to have the brakes beefed up hugely, and all the other safety features, like indicators, headlights and a decent horn. I'd have to ride it wearing a motorbike helmet, and ideally a jacket and boots, so pedaling would be out of the question, even if I was at a speed where that would actually do anything (under 40kmh). The wind chill would not enable cycling clothes, period, unless the journeys were really short. Basically, if you have something capable of those speeds, you have a motorbike, not a pushbike, not even a moped.

Which is not to say that a grunty electric motorbike wouldn't be a really cool thing to have. It's just a totally different proposition to a moped, which can be ridden on a car license (at least here in NZ it can), or a motorized bicycle, which can be ridden with no license and no registration either. Expecting to get all of those things into the one vehicle seems a little unlikely. Better would probably be having one of each. Bikes don't take up much space, so choosing the bike for the purpose on the day isn't such a bad idea. If all you want to do is burn rubber, take a few jumps, show off to some chicks, and just marvel at the awesomeness of the machine, take your meatiest hog. If you just want to cover some miles and aren't in a hurry, like during a commute, then the smallest most efficient bike is probably best. If you want to nip around doing errands in your area, then something in between would be the best choice. Why not have all 3?

But anything that can be done to widen the power AND efficiency bands of all bikes is something worth doing. If Safe works out a way of switch a single motor between various efficiency/power modes, he's a legend. The next trick will be how to switch the batteries between those modes.
 
NZ is indeed New Zealand, a metric country. I was also curious about the first to 20. kmh? mph? Or maybe 20 meters. 20 laps?

My money is on mph, the cruising speed of trained cyclists.
 
Is It Magic?

What I've tried to do is investigate the relationships that exist between motor, battery, gearing and controller. The rewinding process allows you to change the motor to give performance that is custom "tuned" for your other components.

The opposite approach is to change all the other stuff (battery, controller and gearing) to match a pre-existing motor.

...I've said before, there is no "magic" where you get something for nothing. But getting the right match is a reality. Wrong configurations are more common than correct matches. It's hard to get the optimal configuration by just randomly pulling parts together, rewinding really focuses the process to a razors edge making peak performance a reality. (it's what you would expect at a racetrack where every possible advantage will be pursued)

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High and Low Power "Boost Control"

If you want a machine that can toggle between high power (low efficiency and short range) and low power (high efficiency and long range) this is not done at the rewind level. To fiddle with that it's all about the controller and you can do a good job of that with an adjustable current limit. If you could say use a 40 amp limit for power mode and a 20 amp current limit for range mode you could get the kind of control you want.

So this concept is possible and I've actually built a circuit before that does this kind of thing. (it was an Armature Current Limit circuit)

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We Love The Number "20"

In order to actually give some suggestions about how to optimize for a given contest we would need lot's of hard facts about the bikes involved. It is possible to build task specific motors... but it's not possible to create a universal answer in a world that is completely unique. That said, in the dragstrip situation it has been written in various places that the Single winds are better at the lowest end power compared to the Doubles and Triples that peak higher later in the powerband. For a 20 meter drag race you would probably want to design the gearing so that the motor peaks in power and rpm just a little before you reach the finish line. Basically you want a bike that has low gearing.
 
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The first to get to the 20km milestone. Obvious really......

I am really struggling with the race specs and rules. All suggestions how we should race these babys are welcome.

I love the pedal free concept. I also love the pedal hard race too...............
 
http://www.tourdepresteigne.co.uk

http://www.re-voltage.eu/redbike.html

http://www.re-voltage.eu/presteigne2009.html

NLandMS7283.jpg


http://www.ebikehub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1501

This guy seems to have found the way to victory. :cool:
 
What might a "revoltage restrictor circuit be",a current limiter?.What's that "revoltage" talk about, just sales talk?.
 
"Restrictor Plate" Racing

As you might expect... I've meddled in this affair as well.

In Europe the ebike laws set a 250 watt restriction on power and then throw in a 15 mph top speed for power to actively boost performance. In America it's 750 watts and 20 mph.

There also is another "faction" within the ebike racing world that is pushing for limits based not on power, but on total battery energy. (this is the more "politically correct" mindset which treats consumption as an evil)

In either case there are circuits being developed that ensure fair racing.

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I fall into the "fixed power" faction in that debate and my entire bike concept is built around the idea of using the fixed power, but using a deregulated speed limit. (no speed limits)

My guess (after reading some of what they are doing there) is that they have devised some circuit that automatically restricts their power level to 250 watts of boost that would be added on top of human power.
 
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