Wiring a Rectifier/Regulator?

Discussion in 'Electrical' started by AnvilBlockForge, Apr 20, 2013.

  1. Found this in my collection of parts, turned out I needed one. But how do I wire this? It just has terminals for a pre-wired plug. What goes to the charger and what goes to the battery? Thanks!
     

    Attached Files:


  2. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    Here you go:
    Regulator2.jpg

    Good Luck,

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
    Timbone likes this.
  3. Wow, thanks for keepin it simple! Thanks!
     
  4. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    Im a little confused. I get the blue wire from generator and the red wire to battery, but what is the yellow wire for? Is it necessary? I just want to connect a generator output to a power distributor where my battery and lights are connected. The output wire would go from the R/R to the power distributor. There is no yellow wire in my setup.
     
  5. Stoltzee

    Stoltzee Member

    That is confusing me too, and maybe my voltage is not regulated. Might be why my head light goes bright and dim with the revs. I don't have a capacitor. My black ground represents the yellow. ??? Maybe a voltage regulator is different???? (Yes it's an Alternator!)
    Untitled-2.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2013
  6. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    You have the same generator as I do, stoltzee. For a simple charging circuit, capacitors and resistors shouldn't be necessary and can in fact have the effect of converting rectified current back to ac. I think you already know what a rectifier does (converts ac to dc). A regulator simply limits the output current from a power supply. There are two types of regulators, shunt and switching. A shunt regulator diverts excess voltage to ground or if used on a stator sometimes diverts the excess voltage to the stator windings. A switching regulator switches the current on and off very rapidly which by my educated guess creates resistance in the path, and since the current in a path is inversely proportional to the resistance in the path, the resistance created by the rapid switching is what limits the current. I was using a charger from wonderful creations, but its gotten fried somehow and they cost like $40. Since I dont have that kind of money, I ordered a 4 pin scooter regulator (also a rectifier, just commonly referred to as a regulator) on ebay for $8 with free shipping. I'm planning to follow bigblue's wiring diagram except for the yellow wire since I dont understand it. Once I have it connected, I'll test the circuit with my multimeter by disconnecting my positive and negative wires from my battery and connecting them to my leads on my meter and testing for dc voltage. If I get a correct reading, I'll report back here.
     
  7. Stoltzee

    Stoltzee Member

    Thanks butterbean! When I ran the ground (yellow) back to the bottle it seemed to increase the out put considerably. You saw how the head light fluctuated.
    I never worked much with electronics, so I'm learning as I go, and budget controls things also.


    Remember to check your bolts, and do safety checks.
     
  8. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    Yes, you would need a voltage regulator to prevent blowing up your lights. As long as they still turn on and shine normally when you first turn them on without revving the engine, then you haven't blown them up yet. I would install a regulator as soon as possible though. You can get them at radio shack for a couple bucks.
     
  9. jaguar

    jaguar Well-Known Member

    Light bulbs with filaments can run on AC or DC.
    LED lights need DC.
    A rectifier and capacitor just changes AC to DC.
    A regulator keeps the DC output voltage steady so that it doesn't increase with RPM.

    If you are putting lighting on a bike by getting the voltage from the stator coil then you have to design it to not draw much current, otherwise the excessive load will lower the stator voltage and retard the ignition timing (on the Grubee at least that is true).
     
  10. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    We're using bottle dynamos and I'll be using a scooter regulator to rectify and control the current. Most of what you said has already been covered.
     
  11. Stoltzee

    Stoltzee Member

    I'm using a 12 volt bridge rectifier, and its wired according to the pictures. Actually after I grounded to the bottle it started to charge the battery better, and those are really bright little lights. I'm going to have to get an amp meter hooked up to see whats really going on. I have a volt, amps, resistance tester, but only 2 hands (alligator clips needed). What the heck! it's therapy.
     
  12. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    I made a grounding cable to ground the generator to the frame as well, but it made no difference. I tested my generator and I'm getting up to 16vac, but no dc voltage from the charger box (which is supposed to have a regulator and a rectifier in it). So either they didn't build the circuit properly, or something got fried. Either way, the charger box I'm using (which incidentally looks to be a copy of a universal rectifier off a snowmobile and the like) costs $40 plus shipping (the one I have was given to me), and I don't have the money to replace it. So I ordered a scooter regulator like the one in the OP of this thread. It shipped out of Houston today, and should be here like Thursday. To avoid any damage to my battery or generator, I'm not running the generator until I get the new regulator.
     
  13. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    Well if anyone else is still curious, I finally figured out what each pin is for, including the yellow wire. On a typical scooter with a 4 pin regulator such as the type being discussed, there is one incoming current, two outgoing positives and one ground. If you are holding the regulator with the top facing up and looking straight at the 4 pins, here is what each pin is for/does. The bottom left pin is your incoming AC current from your stator or in our case, alternator/generator. The top left pin is outgoing rectified current going to the battery. The top right pin would also be outgoing current (I am unclear if this current is rectified or not) which powers the lighting system (the reason I am unclear is because most scooters have ac lighting systems) but in our case it is unimportant unless we want to run our lights and charge our battery separately. The bottom right pin is ground. In my case, the battery and both lights are connected to a power distributor, so the outgoing rectified current from the top left pin would charge my battery and power my lights at the same time. There is no need for me personally to connect anything to the top right pin. Personally, I can't even figure out a way to separate my lighting wires and my battery in a way that would allow use of the yellow wire for lighting purposes. Not only that, the stator on a scooter engine is always turning when the engine is running, even at idle. The battery is mostly used for electric start, and apparently doesn't power the lights at all. With my setup, my alternator is driven by my tire, so when the bike stops, so does the current. If I were to separate my lights from my battery, the lights would shut off whenever I came to a stop. So anyway, I've got the wiring figured out for my purposes. I see no reason that this shouldn't work when my regulator gets here, and if it doesn't work, then something is wrong in the wiring itself, not in the connections. I will test for dc voltage after connecting everything, and report back with my findings.
     
  14. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    The regulator came in the mail today, a day early as it happens. Most likely I won't have time to install it till tomorrow. Got off work early today, but dont feel like messing around with it.
     
  15. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    Well, the scooter regulator works. I followed the wiring diagram pictured here and I tested it by hooking up my multimeter to my positive and negative wires from my battery and slightly revving the engine. Without revving the engine very high or for very long, I got a reading of 10vdc. I did find that I had a faulty fuse, and did not get a correct dc voltage reading until after figuring that out and replacing it. I now believe there was nothing wrong with the charger I was using, but its ok because the scooter rectifier is a lot simpler to hook up, and cheaper to replace should anything go wrong with it.
     
  16. Stoltzee

    Stoltzee Member

    Good info butterbean, thanks.
    I put a RC Car tire on the bottle generator, and rode to the fuel station. The light still gets bright, but not as quickly, and it seems to be charging the battery slowly, which is a good thing. I ran the light on the way there, and when I returned home it appeared brighter just off the battery. I'll have to buy a battery for the good multi meter I have, because the junky one keeps saying the battery's only at 6 volts, and it's a 12 volt battery.
    On the bottle generator I soldered a bead around the back of the rotating part, and filed it even all around, because my first try it went past the head onto the neck, and was a fight to get back off. Then I squeezed the tire on it with a little spay cleaner (Soap), it was a tight fit, but it's holding.
     
  17. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    I actually used the entire wheel that came with the r/c car tire, but with the scooter regulator and the r/c car wheel, my battery isn't charging as fast as I'd like. I'm going to take the r/c car tire off and use the drive wheel the generator came with.
     
  18. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    To clarify, the scooter regulator's output is proportional to its input. These regulators are designed to output ~14vdc, with an input from a stator that can be as high as 30vac at idle, so the 16vac that my generator is producing with the current drive wheel I'm running may not be enough. I'm going to see if I get a higher output from the regulator by switching to the smaller drive wheel for the generator.
     
  19. BigBlue

    BigBlue Active Member

    Most of those cheap scooter rectifiers are half wave and don't put out as much voltage as a full wave rectifier.

    Chris
    AKA: BigBlue
     
  20. butterbean

    butterbean Well-Known Member

    Either way, increasing the input should help to increase the output. Only one way to find out.......
     
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