Bushings?/Bearings? and oil

Discussion in 'General Questions' started by try1897, Sep 2, 2007.

  1. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    I'm braking in a65cc. engine for a speck bike and I've come to the realization that its a bushing engine and doesn't have crank bearings just bushings. That would leed me to believe that it needs more oil. Its almost through its B/in at 16 to one . I've been using Itasca 2 cycle oil that comes 8oz to the bottle and mixed with one gallon of gas is 16 to one. What ratio should it run after the B/in period? I have some synthetic oil that comes in 3.2 oz's and mixed with a gal. would make 40 to 1 so two of them would be 20 to one. After Augie showed me how to set the carb. it runs real good at 16 to one so 20 to one wouldn't be out of the question.What do you all think? The kit didn't come with any paperwork for some reason so I'm not even sure whats recomended. I've been doing the B/in slow and easy but I've noticed the little engine has lots of spunk and think it should run pretty strong when all's said and done. Well its back to the streets for a run to kill off the last of the second tank full..........Tom in W.V.
     

  2. rcjunkie

    rcjunkie Guest

    If it were me, I wouldn't bother with anything other than Maxima 927 or Klotz Benoil 2 stroke oil which both have 20% castor oil in the mix.

    By far, the best oil for lubrication and protection which is critical fora bushing engine. Run this oil at 5oz to a gallon and you can't go wrong.
     
  3. gone_fishin

    gone_fishin Guest

    my opinion, based on more experience than i used to have.

    without the debate of what kind.

    i break-in any happy-time at 20:1 until the rings sing. after that, again opinion-only...

    an engine with bushings needs 25:1 at the least. i have one that's gonna have to stay at 20:1.

    bearings? with a good fitting assembly, i think 32:1 is fine.
     
  4. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    I could live with 20 to one . Is 7 oz oil to a gallon of gas about 20 to one ??? T
     
  5. Wrench66

    Wrench66 Guest

    More oil = cooler AND more power through better ring seal. Castor oil is the absolute best oil for any small hardworking 2 stroke. A bit messy and will smoke more than the synthetic oils but a fouled plug once in a while is much cheaper than a wore out bore or a lunched crank for the sake of a clean plug and no smoke.
    Never saw a 2 stroke seize or blowup from using too much oil in the premix. Run as much oil as the engine will burn, specially these cheaply built little motors. The jetting may change fractionally from the fuel being a touch thicker, but it is worth doing for the huge benefits from the added lube. I run a 60's go kart powered by an 80cc McCulloch chainsaw eng on 20:1 927 Maxima castor and it only really smokes noticably if I let it sit and idle for a minute or two. Now these engines are nearly impossible to find parts for so do you think I would risk it using any of the "wonder oils" at 40:1, 50:1, 100:1?!! I've read some folks posts on here asking how to get my engine to quit smoking or stop making the plugs dark brown or black? They just don't get it, a nice clean sootless plug from a 2stroke just gave you notice that something is gonna break sometime very soon.
    Just my $.02, from an old racer who might know a thing or 2.

    cheers,
    Ray
     
  6. I've heard a lot of good things about running castor oil...matter of fact I think it was (is?) used in small RC engines...Other than a little smoke is there anything else to watch out for when running castor with the regular mix?....fwiw I use the mix from Lowes...It's called Promix and I'm not sure why or how but the label on the little plastic jug says it will handle all ratios from 16:1 to 50:1
    (Same little can to 2 gallons of gas).....I use the stuff for all my small 2 cycle tools...(admittedly I sometimes use a can and a half If I know I will be working the weed eater or chainsaw particularly hard that day....just in case!)
    Andrew
     
  7. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    Ray , I'm an old racer also, different kind of racing but a racer none the less. Teens to early twentys spent drag racing a bunch of different kinds of motorcycles. I'm now 56 and my most vivid memorys of the time are the accidents that I had.My legs are in bad shape now as a result of one particularly bad wreck at Aquasco speedway in Md. Ive had several operations on my knees to no avail. I'd love to get into kart racing (vintage) Do you know where I can find a vintage kart to restore? Tom in W.V. E-mail me ...try1897@wmconnect.com ...... thanks.... and where can I get the caster oil?....???....T
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2007
  8. wavygravy

    wavygravy Guest

    i also ran klotz benoil or other castor based oils for years, in lots of varios race bikes. good stuff, just my 2cents!my 71 harley baja 100 had a measureing cup built into gas cap on it said to mix 30 wt motor oil. no woder i had to rering it?
     
  9. rcjunkie

    rcjunkie Guest

    Older radio control engines typically are bushing motors while newer ones are bearing ones.

    The debate over castor blend versus straight syntehtic was solved years ago in the model airplane hobby. Castor blended oil significantly decreased bushing and critical engine component wear period!
     
  10. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    It seems to me that I've herd stories about the use of caster oil in the real planes of days gone by and pilots having an accident while trying to fly and take their pants off at the same time due to the caster oil fumes causing the s**ts.
     
  11. Wrench66

    Wrench66 Guest

    :shock:Whoa, that's a new one!
    I raced many an MX where most of the gate was burning veggie lube, don't remember any probs (I DO recall a real fast guy in dark brown leathers though, wonder if he knew something we didn't?) pertaining to the digestive side of things :rolleyes:.
    Back on topic:
    Please everyone, do NOT use the cheapie weedwipper or chsaw oils as they are made for lightly loaded handheld engines that don't have to pull an overweight lazy lug who won't peddle.....oops, maybe that's just me?
    DO use the motorcycle or better yet High Performance motorcycle type oils made specially for 2 cycle Racing engines. You will be FAR AND AWAY ahead of things and your little Chinese machine will smile and allow far more happy-time miles (not gonna guaranty anything to do with those Play-Doh like bushings though! Even MORE reason to keep the oil ratios up.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 3, 2007
  12. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    Ah ! Now we seem to be getting to the meat of this issue. Where to buy good motorcycle 2 stroke oil? Are there any particular brands I should be looking for?What about the Caster oil ? Can that be added at say 20 % like I read earlyer. (to the oil) ???That % sign always looks like 96 to me for some reason??? T
     
  13. forrest

    forrest Guest

    Hello

    If there is a Autozone in your area they sell Mobile 1 Synthetic two cycle oil, I think its great. I would not use synthetic untile your engine is broken in though.

    Forrest
     
  14. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    Mobile 1

    Man you hit that nail square on the head. I just returned from the zone and got a quart of Racing 2 T mobile 1 . What do you mix it at ? Because of the bushings I'm thinking to go heavy on the oil. Maybe 20 to 1 or even more.
     
  15. rcjunkie

    rcjunkie Guest

  16. Wrench66

    Wrench66 Guest

    Yeah, never a fan of synthetics over here. They just run TOO clean, I know to most that statement may sound strange, but when I teardown an engine and the lower end is nice and lubed with leftover oil, well it just makes me feel better. I have torn into many a 2 stroke that has run synthetic and seen very little oil on the crank and associated assy, they just won't last long like that. Many people have come to me and asked the same type of questions all related to smoke and fouled plugs and even black drool from the exhaist outlet...."please tell us how to eliminate all these probs".
    The key here is that folks without any of the info I am giving you guys here are thinking these things ARE probs, when in fact they are just symtoms of a well oiled and more to the point HAPPY (time!) 2 cycle engines!
    A little smokey, a new plug and a few minutes to wipe up the excess exhaust are cheap compared to a new top end or even a spun lower rod bearing from a lean feul/oil ratio.
    There may be lots of other opinions around to listen to, mine is only that of experience and lots of broken parts from doing it wrong.
    Just my .02$
     
  17. Wrench66

    Wrench66 Guest

    RC's right......those little high winding glow engines have bushings on the rod bearing (prolly THE most crital area in any 2 stroke engine, friction wise) and they spin some HEAVY rpms.....near 20k for some I reckon! Their hp per liter is up above some F1 engines so their lubrication issues are even more focused than our wonder toys.
    They have ALWAYS used a castor based lubricant in their fuel, although as RC noted Synth oils tried to compete but in the end engine wear and a heat issue caused a re-think.
     
  18. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    Well that leaves me with only one problem. I can burn up he mobile 1 in the weed wacker and the neighbors 2 stroke lawn mower but where to buy the real oils you guys speak of? No bike shops around here except Harley and the biker guys. Moto X well there is a track about 60 miles down in Va. no Moto X bike shop around here tho. Auto shops don't carry anything like that. Guess I'll try the net??? Its that or go back to using the little bottles of weed wacker oil from the hardware store. When I used the Itasca ( cheep ) small bottles at 25 to one my other engine used to smoke and drip oil from the tail pipe. If nothing else I can switch to that....T
     
  19. forrest

    forrest Guest

    Hello

    Well, trust me when your engine blows up, or seizes (if it ever does) it will really have nothing to do with what type of pre mix you use. I have Vintage 1961 Lawn Boy mower thats the instructions calls for 16 ounces of 20 weight oil per gallon! Talk about lublication! Nothing like talking about pre-mix to start a fight! LOL. The most important thing is to use pre-mix, not straight gas!


    Forrest
     
  20. try1897

    try1897 Guest

    I agree with that point. I put 8oz. of mobile 1 to a gal . of mid range gas. I just wish I could find some caster oil to spike it with. I took it as a kid back when it was supposed to keep us kids all healthy and running right. T